The podcast episode 66 featuring Michael AEE is a quiet and strong installment.

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Show Notes

As an introvert, do you feel like you’re always pretending to be someone else? Do you feel like you’re out of alignment with who you really are? How do you find authenticity to be yourself as an introvert? 

In this episode, guest Dr. Michael Alcee helps us explore how to connect with your authentic self,  and learn “emergency introvert hacks” that support your introverted nature – whatever your environment.  And, when everyone else doubted, you’ll discover what happens when a college psychologist creates a campus club, especially for introverts! 

Don’t miss this episode of the Quiet and Strong Podcast where you’ll learn creative ways to be yourself and be strong!

Finding Alignment and Authenticity as an Introvert: Insights from Dr. Michael Alcée

Hello, followers of The Quiet And Strong Podcast. I’m David Hall, your host, and today I’m excited to share profound insights from our latest episode, “Finding Alignment and Authenticity as an Introvert with Dr. Michael Alcée.” Dr. Alcée’s expertise in psychology illuminated the intricate world of introverts, their journey of self-discovery, and the therapeutic paths available to support their growth. Let’s delve into the harmonious blend of acceptance and expansion, as discussed in this enlightening conversation.

Understanding the Introvert-Extrovert Spectrum

In the realm of personality traits, introverts and extroverts often represent the two ends of a social interaction spectrum. Understanding and respecting each nature is fundamental. It’s about striking a balance – recognizing the value of quiet introspection for introverts and the energizing effect social interactions have on extroverts. Beyond this, however, lies a need to gently stretch our comfort zones, whether that means encouraging introverts to share their insights or suggesting extroverts embrace moments of solitude.

The Role of Therapy in Personal Growth

Therapy, as portrayed by Dr. Alcée, is an art form that celebrates each person’s uniqueness while supporting their evolution. It’s not about changing who we are but rather enhancing our understanding of ourselves and developing our capacity to live authentically. Our discussion touched upon this duality, where therapy serves as both an honoring of our essence and a guide for personal transformation.

The Power of Group Therapy for Introverts

One of the most empowering aspects of group therapy for introverts is the realization that they’re not alone. As Dr. Alcée highlighted, these settings provide a platform to discuss common struggles, such as disliking small talk or yearning for personal space. The group dynamic fosters a sense of belonging that bolsters confidence and facilitates open expression among its members.

The Gift of Therapy and Creative Living

Dr. Alcée described therapy as a creative and joyful journey. His book, which he refers to as a “love letter” to therapy, aims to reveal the enriching experience therapy can provide. He emphasizes the notion of living creatively, about being flexible and adaptable in our approach to life, much like a skillful improvisation.

Embracing the Human Condition

Mental health isn’t solely focused on addressing mental illnesses—it’s also about comprehending and navigating the human condition. Dr. Alcée’s book serves as a transformative tool, guiding both budding and seasoned therapists in fostering their clients’ ability to live authentically within the vast spectrum of human experience.

Introverts in Group Settings

Against a backdrop of doubt from his peers, Dr. Alcée initiated a group for introspective individuals. Using humor to attract members, he found that the group not only gave introverts a comforting space but also encouraged their voices to be heard, nurturing a talkative and cohesive atmosphere where they could thrive.

The Inner World of Introverts and the External Culture

Our culture often glorifies extroverted behaviors, but introverts possess invaluable insights into the inner workings of the self. Dr. Alcée’s observations in psychotherapy reveal the natural proficiency introverts have in accessing and exploring these depths, and he argues that this expertise should be celebrated and utilized.

Navigating Introversion with Aiden as an Example

Dr. Alcée shared touching anecdotes about his son, Aiden, whose acute perceptiveness exemplifies the keen observational skills characteristic of many introverts. Though society might sometimes view such traits with concern, promoting socialization over introspection, Dr. Alcée advocates for affirming and harnessing these strengths.

The Challenges of Misalignment and the Pressure to Conform

Introverts are often pressured into mimicking extroverted behaviors, leading to discomfort and stress. Dr. Alcée likened individuals to different musical instruments, each with a distinct range and capacity for expression. When we push against our nature, the dissonance can manifest as anxiety or depression. Understanding and aligning with our intrinsic nature is key to fostering well-being and authenticity.

Therapeutic Insights for Introverts: Anxiety, Depression, and Self-Compassion

Many individuals who self-identify as introverts may mislabel their experiences of dissonance as anxiety or depression. Dr. Alcée’s perspective illuminates how recognizing and aligning with introverted tendencies can alleviate these challenges. He champions the practice of self-compassion, particularly in nurturing the delicate energetic ecosystem that introverts inhabit.

As we wrapped up our dialogue with Dr. Alcée, the takeaway was clear: whether introvert or extrovert, embracing our true selves and nurturing our innate qualities is the pathway to living a fulfilled and authentic life.

Listeners, I invite you to explore the depth of the discussion in this episode and embrace your quiet strength. May you find alignment in your quietness and strength in your introspection. Thank you for tuning in to The Quiet And Strong Podcast. Until next time, stay true to yourself—and as Dr. Alcée reminds us, let’s continue to make room for the quiet ones.

Key Takeaways

  • Balancing understanding and growth: It is important to strike a balance between accepting someone as they are while also encouraging their growth and expansion.
  • Therapy as a creative process: Therapy can be seen as a creative and fun process, helping individuals understand themselves and live with a range of creativity.
  • The power of group therapy for introverts: Group therapy provides a supportive space for introverts to express themselves, share experiences, and empower each other.
  • Valuing introverted qualities: Introverts have valuable insights and expertise in understanding and navigating the inner world. It is crucial to acknowledge and appreciate introverted qualities.
  • Understanding and aligning with introversion: Introverts thrive when they understand and align with their natural tendencies and take breaks to recharge. Self-compassion and self-care are essential for introverts.

Make Changes Now

After listening to this episode of The Quiet and Strong Podcast with Dr. Michael Alcée, here are a few actions you can take immediately to find alignment and authenticity as an introvert:

  1. Reflect on Your Nature: Take the time to sit down and assess whether your daily activities are in alignment with your introverted nature. If you find instances where you’re repeatedly mimicking extrovert behaviors at the expense of your well-being, explore ways to adjust these situations to better suit your introvert traits.
  2. Create a Self-Care Routine: Considering the importance of recharging and processing information for introverts, establish a self-care routine that includes regular breaks and quiet time. This could involve setting aside time each day for solitude, engaging in relaxing activities like reading or meditation, and ensuring you have a quiet space at home where you can retreat to when needed.
  3. Practice Self-Compassion: During moments when you feel overwhelmed by social pressures or overstimulation, remind yourself that it’s okay to take a step back. Practice self-compassion by acknowledging your feelings without judgment and giving yourself permission to take breaks and leave social gatherings if necessary.
  4. Explore Group Therapy or Supportive Communities: Seek out a group therapy setting or a supportive community of fellow introverts. The shared experiences and understanding from such groups can help you feel less isolated and more confident in expressing your authentic self.
  5. Educate Yourself and Others: Learn more about the nature of introversion. Consider reading materials or watching talks—for example, Dr. Michael Alcée’s TED Talk—on this subject to deepen your understanding. Share this knowledge with friends, family, or co-workers to foster a better understanding of introvert needs and strengths.

Remember, the process of incorporating these actions into your life needs to be gentle and tailored to what feels right for you. Take small steps and make adjustments as you learn more about your preferences and boundaries.

Contacts and Links

Michael Alcée, Ph.D. is a clinical psychologist in private practice in Tarrytown, NY and Mental Health Educator at Manhattan School of Music. He specializes in the psychology of introverts, artists, and everyday creativity and the professional development of therapists. 

Guest: Michael Alcee

Get Michael’s Book: 
Therapeutic Improvisation- How to Stop Winging It and Own It as a Therapist 

Contact Michael:


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Michael’s TEDx Talk on introverts:

Other Books mentioned in this episode:

Susan Cain – 

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Contact the Host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:

David Hall

Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster
david [at]

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Timestamped Overview

02:37 Realized introversion in mid to late thirties, through self-reflection and Susan Cain’s book “Quiet”. Understanding mother’s similar temperament.
04:33 The author discovered introversion through studying Carl Jung and found it more appealing than Freud’s views on the inner world. They further explored introversion through therapy and later came across popular books on the topic by Susan Kane.
08:10 Knowing our range and finding our sweet spot is crucial. Understanding our introversion and tailoring our activities accordingly is important.
13:37 Small talk is likened to having a car engine on but not driving, while one-on-one conversations provide more meaningful connection. For introverts, small talk can be draining and less substantial. Introverted connections offer a deeper sharing.
16:13 Despite skepticism, a niche college group for reinsurers flourished with talkative and diverse members, proving the initial doubts wrong.
20:14 Aiden is perceptive, observant, and plays intelligently at 4 years old. Introverts possess a valuable sensitivity and empathy.
22:28 The importance of balancing introversion and extroversion in society and the benefits of psychotherapy for both types of individuals.
26:55 Respecting our nature is key – introversion is a temperament, not just nurture. Embrace introverted qualities, as notable figures have done.
30:52 The pandemic caused isolation and virtual work, affecting both introverts and extroverts.
32:16 The text praises therapy as a creative process, emphasizing the importance of understanding oneself and learning to adapt in the present moment. The author wrote a book to help therapists guide clients towards living more creatively. Mental health is seen as a broader concept beyond disorder treatment.
36:06 The text discusses the need for self-compassion and understanding for introverts and highly sensitive people. It suggests taking time to process information and recharge, as well as using strategies like taking breaks or going to the bathroom to manage overstimulation.
39:31 Forgive ourselves, make time for self-care, practice sustainable living, prioritize mental health.
44:50 The narrator is married to an introvert, has three kids (2 extroverts, 1 introvert), and believes it’s important to find a balance between respecting an introvert’s need for alone time and supporting them to embrace their gifts and not isolate themselves.
45:58 Balancing act: respecting and expanding individuals’ abilities and comfort zones through therapy, teaching, and parenting.
50:22 It’s important to get to know ourselves, not strive for perfection, give ourselves a break, and constantly improve.

Podcast Transcript

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:00:00]:
They would be more outgoing and more confident than most people gave them credit for outside of the group because they could talk when they felt free to talk about what was that value to them. And then of course because they’re perceptive, see introverts also pick up on a lot. they’re tuned in to what’s in the environment, they could really tune in to what the subtle feelings and thoughts of are their peers were. And so they also did a great job of helping each other, which also made them feel powered and also made them feel like they weren’t alone. So there was so much of this. We’re not alone in our struggles. We’re also not alone in our strengths, which we didn’t even know we had.

David Hall [00:00:54]:
Hello, and welcome to the Quiet and Strong Podcast, especially for introvert I’m your host, David Hall, and the creator of quiet and strong dotcom. It’s a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we’ll air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your a platform, leave a review, tell a friend, help get the word out there. Michael Alcy PhD is a clinical psychologist and private practice in Tarrytown, New York. and a mental health educator at the Manhattan School of Music. He specializes in psychology of introverts, artists, and everyday creativity and the professional development of therapist. His contributions have appeared in the Chicago Tribune, The New York Times, the New York Post NPR, and on the TEDx stage, his forthcoming book from Norton entitled therapeutic improvisation, how to stop winging it and owning it as a therapist will be out soon.

David Hall [00:01:59]:
Alright. I’m very excited for my guest today, Doctor Michael Alsie. Michael, welcome to the Quiet Strong podcast.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:02:06]:
David, it’s nice to be with you. Absolutely.

David Hall [00:02:09]:
So we’re gonna get into a TED Talk that you did about introversion. That’s how I found you. In the first place, I stumbled across that. I thought it was wonderful, and then I connected with you on LinkedIn. And we’ll we’ll definitely talk about that and a book you have coming out and the work that you’re doing with introverts as a as a clinical psychologist. But first, I always like to start. You know? Tell us about your own journey with learning that you’re an introvert and how you embrace that.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:02:37]:
You know, it’s funny. I didn’t know I was an introvert. It probably told my, like, mid to late thirties. I I had always known that I was quite introspective and fairly sensitive and and really loved reading and, you know, the internal world, but I never labeled it as introvert. In fact, I thought I was the furthest thing from an introvert. It wasn’t really until I read Susan Cain’s book quiet that I started to put the pieces together that this is somewhat an important part of my temperament. And, also, I realized looking back in it that it’s also an important part of my mom’s temperament that we both could spend hours, you know, reading and talking one on one and going in-depth but also, like, having those moments where we’re like, wait, I need a break from the world. And and not knowing why that was something of how we were built, just thinking that was sort of a liability. Like, thinking that there was something possibly different about us in a way that that maybe set us apart in a way that didn’t feel so wonderful. But it’s only when I discovered the the term introvert and how it was being re kind of reexplored that I realized, hey, this makes a lot of sense.

David Hall [00:03:57]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And just about every guest references Susan Cain. So that’s a very important book, quiet, for folks as they come to understand themselves. And, again, this this shows all about discussing, you know, the strengths and needs of introverts along with. We’ll do some myth busting and some strategies for success. But that’s the thing. It’s it’s a very natural part of our of our of our personalities are temperaments, and it it needs to be understood. And it’s and it’s beautiful when it’s understood.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:04:33]:
you know what’s funny now that you mentioned it, David? because I was thinking back, I didn’t really quite locate this be before. I started to discover introversion when I started to get very in in Carl Jung. I always really, as a psychologist, always thought, you know, Freud was a brilliant writer and a brilliant theorist and had captivating ideas some of which, you know, I didn’t totally wholeheartedly agree with, but others I thought were really, really brilliant. But there’s something about the way that he viewed the inner world that I felt that Yong did differently. Young really appreciated even the dream landscape in a very different way than Froy did. He appreciated the inner world in a way and even creativity in the arts in a different way. And there was something that felt more hospitable and at home about it. And when I went to therapy when I was in grad school, I went to a union analyst. And I think by really getting more of a sense for what that introverted world was like was really how I discovered first, but I didn’t label it as such until it came more in the popular, you know, the popularized books of Susan Kane.

David Hall [00:05:43]:
Right. Right. Yeah. And I I agree too. It it’s it’s you know, everybody spends time in the inner world. Everybody spends time in their outer world. It’s just as introverts, we spend more time there, and it’s natural for us like you were saying. And that’s, you know, that’s what definitely I came to conclusion. And and I was also the same way where I didn’t put a label on it for a long time, As I look back, I’m like, oh, yeah. I did need my alone time. I did need to recharge, you know, when I was younger and and from then on, but I didn’t understand what it was. But I also like many of my guests, at some point, thought there was something wrong with me. A lot of people have this sense and not everybody, There’s definitely some people that always have embraced who they were or very confident as introverts. I always wanna make that clear, but there’s some folks that feel like they’re broken. and something’s wrong. And if you can get to understand your natural you know, the way you approach life naturally, it could be a wonderful thing.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:06:42]:
And it’s also in context. Like, when I was in college, my my best friend who was my roommate, was a deep introvert, and he could spend the whole weekend reading fantasy books. And next to him, I didn’t feel like an introvert at all. Heck yeah. I, you know, would like to go out to to parties, but then I would need to recharge. And so I’m more along the introverted extrovert portion. I’m sort sort of more of an ambivert. But a lot of what’s interesting about Amber words is we people who are Amber words typically get misconstrued as extroverts because We can be outgoing in in some ways, but also need to dial it back, and that could be really confusing to folks.

David Hall [00:07:22]:
Oh, yeah. And I I think it it comes down to you know, like you said, there’s a there’s a wide spectrum, you know, of what people need. And for the most part, we all need social connection. You know? It’s just it’s gonna look different between people You know? What I need is gonna you know, we’re fellow introverts, but what I need is gonna vary from what you need. And the idea is figure that out. What is it that you need? What do you want? If you’re not getting that, how can you get that? And then I I also think it’s if I am looking to be more social than I am, I’m not gonna approach it as a extrovert. I’m gonna if I learn to approach it in my introverted way, that’s where I’ll find the most success and with it.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:08:10]:
Yeah. I think that’s true. I think it’s really important to know your range and to know the sweet spot, like, where it is that you really thrive, and what’s what are your limits on one side and the other? you know, which could be the amount of time that you like socializing versus meeting refilling with some more introverted recharge walking in nature, reading, playing piano, or doing something, like, going to a museum, anything like that. and and knowing the relative balance of that. And it’s also very personalized. And I think one of the cool things about knowing ourselves psychologically is to tailor to to know what it is our specifications are. And introversion is one of one of the main dimensions of our personality, and it’s one of the main ways in which we get energy in the one of the main ways that we dispel energy. So I’ve always been I’ve always been fascinated that psychologists and therapists and social don’t focus more on why that is because, you know, if you have a car, you wanna know if it’s gas or electric or a hybrid. You know?

David Hall [00:09:11]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I I think and that’s why I do this work because I think there are very significant differences You know? There’s a few that really make it different. Now and, you know, you’ll say the same as, of course, none of us are alike, and there’s different there’s a lot of different factors in our personality that aren’t based on introversion, extraversion, but I think there’s significant differences that if you don’t understand, you know, you you may not be getting what you want in a life. So

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:09:42]:
Yeah. I think they’re really foundational and fundamental as you’re saying. And and I think that’s something that I think it’s really great that there is more out there in popular culture and and even in, you know, books and podcasts like this. And even in the field of psychology and and therapy that we’re we’re really making this a part of how we understand the psyche because it is such a basic thing. I was really even heartened my I have a little boy. He’s four years old, and, you know, he loves Daniel Tiger. is like the Mister Rogers spin off cartoon version. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there’s this wonderful episode where Daniel there’s a whole episode, like, Sometimes you wanna be alone, you can find a place of your very own. And and when each of the kids are feeling overstimulated, the teacher’s like, no. He just needs to be alone. And I thought, how far we’ve come as a culture to start noticing that and respecting that rather than saying why aren’t you playing more with everybody? I just think it’s a real cool culture change.

David Hall [00:10:45]:
Yeah. And that’s that’s the thing. I mean, when I was growing up, there was no talk of introversion, extraversion. And, you know, definitely, I’ve heard from a lot of people. There was that pressure to always be social when you know, maybe sometimes they wanted to be social, but there was plenty of times where they needed some time. You know? And it’s it’s it’s great for it’s very it’s very important for parents to be able to understand that too. parents, teachers, others. Yeah. You know, it’s it’s it’s normal.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:11:16]:
You know? Well, that’s what I loved about it. To see it and to see it normalize on a on a children’s show like that, which, you know, children’s show is all about teaching the basics. Mister Rogers was always about teaching them the basics of how emotions work and how to help regulate them. And I thought, Wow. They are giving such an important acknowledgment and validation for everybody that there’s times when we need introvert a time. I think is also an important point that it’s not just introverts who need introverted time. We all need it because we all need to come back to that core.

David Hall [00:11:48]:
Yeah. Yeah. And the causes might be different, you know, why why we need to recharge. Like you said, how we recharge I think you mentioned the way I think you the examples you gave were probably specific to you. Is that right? Like, how do you recharge?

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:12:04]:

David Hall [00:12:05]:
k. So just tell us those again?

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:12:08]:
So, you know, for me, I’ve always found So I’m a pianist. So for me, playing piano on my own, you know, I would always go to piano as a kid. I, you know, I work at a college, and sometimes I would go into a practice room or take a lunch break playing piano. For me, taking a walk or hike in nature or some place where it’s just, like, I get to be with my own thoughts. anything like that, like a museum, I find very, very restorative as an introvert, one on one conversation. you know, all of those things I think are are a lot of introvert sanctuaries for me and intra introvert charging stations, if you will.

David Hall [00:12:54]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I I love that last one, the one on one conversation. It’s you know, like I said, we do a lot of myth busting here, and so many people think that we don’t wanna connect, but one on one conversation sometimes recharges me. you know, with the right person. Like, I’m enjoying this conversation right now with you. You know? And it’s it’s not it’s not draining. It’s you gotta figure out, okay. in that big group where, you know, I’m expected to come up with a bunch of small talk and that kind of thing, that’s gonna drain me. Yeah. But if I’m having a one on 1, you know, especially talking about something I’m excited about like this, it’s it could be recharging.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:13:37]:
Or in the short row? I’ll use a funny analogy for it. I just thought of it right on the moment, actually. Okay. because you made me think of it. Like, Small talk is a lot like having your car engine but on but not driving. It doesn’t let the battery recharge. But having a one on one conversation is having that battery on while the car is driving, and that’s constantly circulating energy into it. It’s a whole different story. But if you just small talk is keeping that car on in the driveway. And for introverts, that just drains down really, really quickly. And you know, I mean, I think in a funny way introverts also just we many of us don’t prefer that. It just feels shallower. It doesn’t feel as meaningful. It doesn’t feel as substantial. And, you know, we also recognize the sort of social game that’s being played. because, you know, some of extra version is also playing a role and a performance. And one of the nice things about, you know, introverted connect is that you’re actually going into a sort of more soul to soul connection, which isn’t really a performance. It’s rather a kind of deeper sharing.

David Hall [00:14:46]:
Yeah. I love that. That’s awesome. Yeah. You know, some small talk is absolutely necessary. to get to those conversations that we crave. We can’t live about it. Yeah. Yeah. And if somebody’s not very good at it, I do think you can get better. Some of that’s understanding your introversion. You know, like, a lot of times it’s good to be prepared for things we think before we speak. understanding some of those things can really help, but we’re gonna do some. It’s just when it’s just that’s all there is, that’s where some of us get trained.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:15:18]:
Yeah. It’s sort of like when you think of, like, certain holiday meals where you know there’s gonna be a lot of extended small talk because people don’t exactly know each other or don’t know exactly the best way to connect with each other, and then you end up talking about the weather or sports teams or something that really has very little interest to you. Yeah. That’s that’s that’s it.

David Hall [00:15:40]:
So your TED talk, and I’ll put I’ll put the link in the show notes, but it was called introverts college and the mind and the mind solving our mental health crisis. And you can tell us more about it, but, you know, basically, you’re a a a college psychologist, and you’re looking to put together a group. You know? A lot of times, in college. We really wanna help students feel like they belong and that type of thing. And so you’re looking to put together a group. And tell us about that. The group that you put together know, the hard time you got from your colleagues

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:16:13]:
and what really hap what really happened? Yeah. We’re always looking for groups in college, and they’re never there. Yeah. They’re never well attended groups. And so you could put up the greatest group in the world, and you think it’s fantastic. and then very few people show or few people remain coming. So I decided I’m gonna try something way outside of the box. and I decided I wanna do a group for reinsurers. And then, of course, my colleagues ripped on me. Who’s gonna show up to that? And if they do show, are they even gonna talk? Right. They were giving they were giving me hell about how silly of an idea it was, and I put this funny meme on it, you know, like introverts unite in small groups for limited periods time. And I got such a great response, but I also would watch students walk past it and laugh and smile but they weren’t just laughing because it was funny, but because it sorta hit them. They understood it. And this group started and a lot of the folks I was surprised that it was like they finally had a respite from the rest of the extroverted world and they could actually let their hair down. And the other thing that really surprised me is that they were so talkative. They talked more They got deeper. They were more cohesive, and it was an even more diverse group than I had ever run before. So all of the things that people said would make it a bad group were precisely what made it the best group.

David Hall [00:17:41]:
Wow. Yeah. He busted some mist there. I mean, it’s like, So, like, what kind of things did they do? Like, how how are they engaging with each other and being I think he said it was the most talkative group you you’ve

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:17:57]:
seen. Well, yeah, I think one of the first things that they could do is that they all could agree on the things that there were their tip their their introvert hang ups. Okay. And they found all of a sudden. So one of the great things about group therapy is find out that you’re not alone in what you struggle with. And so they found out, wow. You mean, you don’t you hate small talk too. oh, wait. You sometimes get overloaded and people don’t understand it, and you don’t know how to tell friends. It’s not that I don’t like you. I just need to take some time on my own. And, oh, you have a hard time doing public speaking even though you know me your material. So all of these things that they could then actually talk about more vulnerable, more openly, and feel more confident in just being who they were. Then the other thing is despite themselves because they’re all so bright and perceptive, they would be more outgoing and more confident than most people gave them credit for outside of the group because they could talk when they felt free to talk about what was of value to them. And then, of course, because they’re perceptive, see introverts also pick up on a lot. they’re tuned in to what’s in the environment, they could really tune in to what the subtle feelings and thoughts of are their peers were. And so they also did a great job of helping each other, which also made them feel powered and also made them feel like they weren’t alone. So there was so much of this. We’re not alone in our struggles. We’re also not alone in our strengths, which we didn’t even know we had.

David Hall [00:19:39]:
Oh, that sounds wonderful. And, you know, that’s what I hope to achieve here is, yeah, you’re not alone. You know? You you told your own story. Other guests tell their own stories. This is, you know, where I’m coming from. This is what I’ve learned, and Yeah. That sounds like a great group. So you also just mentioned, you know, we’re not alone, but we also share some strengths What what do you think is maybe introvert sometimes these are called superpowers, introvert super power of yours. And then maybe some you’ve seen in in in students or other clients?

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:20:14]:
Yeah. You know, my son is a lot like me in this way. So we had a parent teacher conference. He’s 4. And I I’ll never forget what they said. They said his name is Aiden. They said Aiden. He’s very smart. He’s very bright. He’s very sweet. And they said, but he doesn’t miss anything. and he notices all things going on. He, like, takes inventory. And, interestingly, they said it in a way that was fairly positive, but they note they slipped and said but. Right? As if this perceptiveness or this this thing was something that was getting in the way of him just loosening up and socialize. it. Whereas when I heard it, I’m like, that’s right. He’s perceptive. And so what I love about being an introvert is you really perceive so much. And so you’re tending to a lot, which sometimes people sometimes see that as a liability because you might not act as quickly because you’re sizing up and being deliberate. But it’s also because you’re noticing a lot more of the newer And so I loved it. They said, oh, but he notices everything. And they said he did this funny thing when he started. when they started class, you know, they usually have them just do free play. And they’re like, well, he wasn’t going and playing. She was like, kind of watching everybody. They kept on saying, don’t you wanna play with this? Don’t you wanna play with that? So he said a few days in, all of a sudden, he decided he got a baby stroller and he was doing the baby stroller around the class. And they thought, oh, great. We got him to play. And then they realized he was so perceptive that he figured them out them out too. And he said, they want me to play? I’m gonna make it look like I’m playing. And while I’m doing the baby carriage, I’m gonna be surveying the landscape. At four years old. Or results, so I think one of the things that is a real superpower is that we’re very sensitive and have a sensibility that picks up on a lot. And I think that allows us to be very empathic and very discriminating and also very in touch.

David Hall [00:22:24]:
Yeah. And that’s awesome that they recognize the strengths.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:22:28]:
We just need to keep working to get rid of that butt. Right? Yes. Which which when they said it, I was like, and I just in my mind, I was like, and he he knows everything. Right. Right. Instead of yeah. And — But I but I think that’s what what the culture does. Right? It’s like, wait. We’re used to thinking success as helping kids learn how to become more social and expand their circles. And so now the funny thing is we start much more close to the introverted inner world and as we grow up we are expanding our social external territory And I think one of our mistakes as a culture at times was to overplay the importance of leaving behind that inner world too much. And Introverts just can’t do that because that’s how we’re built. We can’t leave it. That’s such an important part. But I also think extroverts and people who are not as introverted still need to learn how to reconnect. That’s why I think psychotherapy is so powerful because I think even your most extroverted person sometimes needs to come back home to what’s going on inside. And that’s where I think Interps have a leg up. Like I told you before we started this this interview is that introverts actually have a lot of practice and a lot of comfort and familiarity with that place. which is also why their group ran so beautifully because a lot of the basic things that make therapy go introverts know instinctively.

David Hall [00:23:59]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So and I think that’s you know, it’s you’re saying I mean, I I’m a deep thinker. I go deep inside, and that’s one of my gifts. I I’m a good problem solver, you know, and and, you know, I don’t have all the gifts. being analytical is one of them, and I can, you know, make a new business plan. You know, I can come up with a different way of doing things at work or at home, and and and I really enjoy that. You know? And some people are gonna be better at other things, you know, maybe better than me at building relationships or telling a story. Sure. But like you’re saying, that’s that’s that’s a part of me, and I need to embrace it and not be told, well, hey. You know, don’t don’t do so much of that. But it’s it’s who I am, and it always it always will be, but it’s something that I really enjoy. But sometimes people are made to feel like well, you shouldn’t be doing that particular thing.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:24:55]:
And I think you bring up a good point, David, for all of us here is that we all really need to come from what our core places in and to be sort of naturally aligned with that and to be able to operate from that place first. And, you know, for introverts, that’s important. For experts, that’s important. It doesn’t matter, but it’s really important that we start from where we are, which is our home. And and, you know, as what’s interesting, what I loved about that group is that when people in the group could be introverts and be in their home, the other stuff like being more outgoing came naturally. The things that maybe aren’t our first instinct will come online better if we come from our core. And that, I think, is really important that we come from that authentic place. And so even you know how sometimes introverts also feel like I don’t like doing a job interview because it feels like too much marketing, or I don’t like marketing because I don’t like to be that slick salesman.

David Hall [00:25:53]:
Right? Yeah.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:25:54]:
But the challenge is then how do you make that come from your core of how do I share with somebody more about what I love about what I do or how I solve problems or what I like about what I’ve learned about your organization. Or how do I market in a way that shares what my values are? that’s a way that you can still do this other thing but coming from your introverted core.

David Hall [00:26:20]:
Yeah. Absolutely. You know, if I’m going for a job interview, I’m gonna prepare for that differently than my extroverted friend, but I can do it in a way where, you know, I I show my passion and my knowledge, but I’m gonna really prepare in a different way than my my extroverted friend might do that. which is perfectly fine. That’s that’s fantastic. Yeah. And so you mentioned about being in alignment. You know? And I know, like, being creative is really important to you. How how does that help when you’re in alignment? How does that help bring out someone’s creativity?

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:26:55]:
Now I think it’s a really good point because, you know, I think sometimes what happens with us is we forget which instrument we are. Right? So a cello really can’t play like a trumpet and a trumpet can’t really play like a piano. And so it’s really important to be in alignment with what our nature is. And that’s what I think is so fundamental about introversion because it’s part of our instrument. Right? It’s it’s a really kind of nature oriented thing. It’s not something that’s just nurture. you know, it’s affected by nurture. But introversion is much more of a temperament thing, which is what your instrument is, how it’s tuned. The more that we can respect our instrument and play in what it does, the better music we’ll make. I I have this Chellis that I’m working with at Manhattan School Music. And he was telling me, I’m doing this piece, and it’s like really, like, avant garde new music that somebody can post, and it’s interesting. But it’s like they don’t know how how a cello really works because some of these passages are impossible. Mhmm. And so, unfortunately, we actually do that to ourselves psychologically where we try to make ourselves do impossible things for the instrument that we have. So that’s what I mean about really coming back and being more in alignment because then there’s amazing things that the cello can do or the Trump put whatever. And there’s so much range within that instrument, but you can’t force that instrument to be something else. And that’s something that introverts have struggled with because, you know, for a number of years, especially since, like, the early 20th century. With, you know, the extrovert ideal, a lot of introverts have been forced to try and pretend to be extroverts. And and, heavily, we’re seeing more of an embracing of introverted qualities, introvert qualities in business, in politics. I mean, there are so many notable people now that you can see in the public eye who are introverts with, whether it’s Meryl Streep or Barack Obama or Stephen Colbert or Rosa Parks. Like, the list goes on in Gandhi. Like, there’s so many people who you could see who actually have that and work within their instrument.

David Hall [00:29:05]:
Yeah. I love the instruments because They all can do amazing things, but they’re different. And the other thing is we need them all. Right? We do. You know?

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:29:15]:
Yeah. And that’s the other that’s the other thing. And that’s why I think sometimes, you know, like, sometimes people wonder, like, hey. When you’re talking so much about introverts, are you putting down extroverts? Not at all. extroverts are fantastic. They’re they’re like I said, they’re like the Trump is. Like, they they — K. — they will do something really powerful. They will take the risk they will jump into conversation first and faster. They will keep you know, you look at some politicians like Joe Biden, for example, is a classic extrovert. Right? Hugh probably will stay in the room like Bill Clinton was a classic extrovert too. He could stay in the room with people for long periods of time. wouldn’t be surprised if Ronald Reagan was an extrovert too. Right? But then there’s, like, Barack Obama’s more of an introvert or, you know, each of these styles bring something different. and we need them all. Like you said, we need all the instruments in their orchestra. We just need to know when we need to summon one versus the other.

David Hall [00:30:09]:
Right. Right. And, you know, I also say that, yeah, we’re we’re I’m never bashing extroverts. We need everybody. So but we need to understand everybody’s gifts and also needs.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:30:23]:
Totally right. I think that’s right. We need to understand everybody’s gifts, everybody’s needs, and also what are the challenges for each. Right? Like, whereas introverts have challenges with being too much with people, extroverts have challenges with being not enough with people. And they will go into a sort of their own sort of crisis mode when they haven’t like being on lockdown was very difficult for extroverts, not being able to get together in groups. or have more extroverted stimulation that must have been really harrowing for a bunch of extroids.

David Hall [00:30:52]:
Yeah. And, I mean, I think the same thing. I think I think it really showed us kinda what what we wanted because we had to step back And I definitely you know, as an introvert, I still felt periods of isolation. You know, I had my my wife and my 3 kids here with me. Sometimes that was a bit much. But at the same time, you know, I missed other people that I didn’t get to see us frequently. Like, I didn’t get to see my mom for a long time. and other family members and friends. And so there was definitely a sense of isolation, you know, really getting used to doing things virtually at work and and other things like that. So I I I think there was a lot of misconceptions too, but I think we learned a lot from it as we all need connection but it looks different. And, you know, I I knew some extroverted colleagues that would go into the office when they didn’t have to, just hoping that they would bump into somebody. You know? Yeah. And I think it was a great point too. I think that’s a great point too about the introverts getting lonely too. Right? They’re

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:31:52]:
we we do need social companionship and social connection no matter what. You know? Yeah. Absolutely.

David Hall [00:32:02]:
So you have a book coming out. It’s called therapeutic improvisation, how to stop winging it and own it as therapist. Tell us a little bit about that. Hey. Yeah. Into the house today. First day that I got in the hands on it. It’s so exciting. Awesome.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:32:16]:
Yeah. So — Congratulations. Thank you, David. It’s it’s it’s really a sort of love letter to therapy and why I think therapy is such a a fun and creative process as a therapist but also as a client. Because I think one of the things is that we We often know, like, how our phones work really well, but we don’t always know how this machinery inside of us works. And I think one of the best gifts of therapy is to teach us how we actually work. And in a lot of ways, we’re like a good piece of jazz music where we’re always kind of going through different chord changes. And I think our job is to learn how to read those changes and figure out how to solo on them more articulately. and that learning how to live creatively means learning how to improvise, which is actually an interesting combination of knowing a lot about yourself, but also knowing how to work with things in the moment. And I wrote this book because I wanted to help therapist learn how to do that because I wanted them to help clients learn how to do that. Because I think we’re all much happier and healthier when we are living with that sort of range and capacity. And I think, you know, sometimes we talk a lot about mental illness and mental health. And I think it’s great that we’ve isolated what are the different kinds of disorders that there are out there and how to help them. But I think sometimes we don’t look at mental health more broadly as how do we live more creatively by understanding how this human condition works? And so I wanted to write something that kinda showed especially beginning therapists and early career therapists, like, how to put that together. Very nice.

David Hall [00:34:06]:
What are some things that you help in therapy around the topics of introversion in embracing introversion, maybe helping introverts gain confidence. What are some what are some things you help introverts work through?

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:34:19]:
Yeah. I think a big part is like, you know, a lot of introverts come in labeling themselves as either having anxiety and depression because they have it separate. And sometimes that is the case. Like, somebody might come in with an anxiety sort of or depression. But there are good many times when people who are introverts have anxiety or depression because they’re not really as an alignment with how they work. and that anxiety, let’s say, comes up when they’re feeling conflicted about wanting to have time for themselves but wanting to please their friends or their significant other. And then that leads to sort of inner conflict or turmoil that becomes anxiety. or feeling over stimulating and not getting enough of a break and then feeling depressed as the psyche’s way of trying to recalibrate. So one of the most important things I think is trying to isolate how much of this is because we haven’t kind of factored in how introvert works for you. and at least try to figure out if we make those tweaks first, that that’s why I did the TED Talk because I felt like there was a whole lot of people coming into college counseling who had anxiety and depression and I had this feeling that based on the numbers, if, like, a third to a half of the American population are introverts. Imagine if a third to the half of the people coming into a college counseling center don’t really know how their introversion works. And what if we can help them with their anxiety instantly? So the first thing is I like to kind of lean into, like, wait. How do we work and how does this help us know how we can deal with those things a lot better.

David Hall [00:35:55]:
Yeah. And so it’s again, there could be a lot of different causes as you well know, but just understanding yourself could change a lot of things for somebody.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:36:06]:
that’s a major that’s in a major tweak, and that can have major ramifications. The other thing is being more sensitive and compassionate with oneself of We, I tend to take in a lot, and it takes me some time to process. So if I don’t raise my hand immediately in class, it’s not because I don’t know what I’m talking about. It’s because I’m tinkering with a lot. Right? So there’s less self judgment about how you operate. Or Like I said, when I’m an introvert and I’m picking up a lot of energy in the room and I’m feeling overloaded, I’m not feeling judgmental. It’s because this wonderful gift of being tuned in means that I’m also taking in a lot. And so that’s why we need time to recharge on our own because we’re not necessarily taking in other people’s energy. So one of the things that I think is really helpful is that it provides more self compassion and more insight and understanding as to why we work the way we do as introverts and how we work. And then that gives us a lot of options for what we can do with that. Right? Like, I had a guy who came into session, and he said, I went into class and it was know. For some reason, it just was so bright. And he was, you know, talking about, like, he’s a little bit sensitive. You know, like, introverts and highly sensitive people kinda they can overlap too. And and I said, you know, I think we should just be mindful and compassionate about that. Some some days maybe just bring a base cap or something in to allow you to have that room to not feel bombarded because overstimulation can happen in a lot of forms. And and then I think it’s also learning about, like, how we can respect ourselves based on those rules, not on the rules that maybe condition to of, like, you should never leave a classroom if you’re feeling overstimulated. Right? Or, like, you know, one of the other I I also like to have, like, emergency introvert hacks Right? So, like, if you’re on on a dinner date with somebody or, like, you know, out with your significant other and you’re just getting overstimulated and you just need, like, so much noise. You know? You’ve you’ve been socializing maybe with a group and you just need a break. The injured hack is go to the bathroom for 15 minutes. even if you don’t have to go. Go get a breath of fresh air. You don’t have to even tell anybody. Say you’re going to the bathroom. But the point is get your time to refill and give your time to let your system regulate again.

David Hall [00:38:34]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, make that normal. Make that okay. I had an elementary school teacher on not not too long ago, and she said that there were certain students in her class that would go to the bathroom about the same time every day. And she figured that out, like, oh, she figured and she was an introvert herself, and she figured out oh, they just need to recharge. So she made that very normal for them. Hey. You know, if you need to just let me know, and I think she had a certain signal they could give, and and that was that was okay. Or maybe I just went to a in person conference for the first time in a couple years. It felt good. But, you know, there was a time where I would’ve felt weird just taking a walk outside by myself, you know, to get a break but just realizing, hey. This is normal. I don’t need to feel weird about maybe that’s just what you need. It’s just take a walk outside for a minute if things get to be too much.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:39:31]:
It’s true and I think we also need to forgive ourselves and give ourselves room because we then internalize a critic inside of ourselves that it’s no longer outside of us shaming us, but it’s now inside of us. And so I remember I used to work at a college like you, and I worked 9 to 5. And I’d be so burnt out by the end of the day. Right? And now as a therapist, what I do is I I do a session or 2 or maybe 3, But then I factor in walking time, right, or even sometimes I love having walking sessions where I’m talking to somebody on the phone or walking in person with them, and that is a different experience. And and, really, I factor it in like I calibrate it as part of, like, how am I doing sustainable practice? And I think we need to think of our lives just like the environment as how do we maintain a sustainability And, you know, introverts are like, you know, like, frogs are, like, very, very sensitive. Right? They have very sensitive membranes, and and so when there’s pollution in in the water in a pond or a lake, frogs are the first ones affected. And introverts are very affected by their environment. And so this is also about really making sure our energetic ecosystem is in balance.

David Hall [00:40:50]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. You mentioned you know, so when I first started working with students many years ago, I loved it. You know, it was it was very rewarding and, you know, trying to help them understand some things that would help them be successful But at the time, I hadn’t put a label on my introversion. And I remember that that same thing where you know, I’d work with back to back students again. I loved it. But I’m like, what’s this feeling? You know, why am I why am I feeling like this? Ed, you just have to realize, hey. You know, after so many you know, here’s where I need a break or here’s here’s a way I can recharge during this particular thing. And, you know, sometimes we need to recharge from something we really enjoy, but we still need to recharge. You know? It’s not always something we’re dreading.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:41:41]:
It’s funny that sometimes it’s too much of a good thing. And — Yeah. Yeah. — that’s the that’s the ironic part, which also can be confusing. And I think that’s what I’ve learned too. I love my job too, and I was confused. I love it. I don’t understand why I’m tired because I do really love it. But still, you need to refill the well or you need to kind of, like, let the the field life follow for a little bit to replenish. And I sometimes analogize it to, like, when you get hangry. Like, if you’re over if you’re overstimulated it you’re like it’s like you haven’t eaten in a while, and and all of a sudden, there’s a point in over a term where you’re just gonna get really super cranky. And you’re gonna get moody and you’re gonna get Kurt. And usually, that’s the point where it’s gone to a point where you need to do some emergency. Get get him something now.

David Hall [00:42:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Emergency intro what’d you call it emergency introvert hacks? Yeah. Emergency introvert hacks. Like, it’s like stat.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:42:35]:
get him get him to the bathroom. Like, get him out into, like, walking by himself. Right? Like, get him somewhere And also the other thing is it’s good to scope out the quietest parts of the office building that you work or the school, places where there are potential introvert retreats. when you need them. And so that’s really good to find out where are the spots on campus, for example, where there’s less traffic and it’s a nice place to recharge. Really helpful to know that.

David Hall [00:43:04]:
Absolutely. I think it’s also really important to understand ourselves and be able to just describe our strengths and needs, not just I’m an introvert, but really be able to say, you know, here’s what I need. Here’s how I work best and be able to articulate that to our significant others or those that we work with. And so they can watch out for us too. And when we need one of those emergency hacks, they they they understand what it is, and it’s not like, hey. You know, I need to step out for yeah. They’re that’s exactly it. They’re taking it personally. I need to step out for a minute, and they know, hey. Yeah. You know, they love me, but they need a break because, you know, they have too much stimulation in this particular thing. So

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:43:43]:
It’s really it’s a really good point. Yeah.

David Hall [00:43:46]:
The more we can articulate those needs, you know, the better that we can help people understand

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:43:53]:
that kind of thing. And you’re right. The other thing is it’s it’s really helpful for our partners to know it or significant others. And also, for us to recognize it in our children too. Like, I can tell when my son needs his in introvert recharge time. Right? Like, when he, like, just came back from school and he needs to just watch TV and just zone out, maybe sometimes I can see him playing with his toy cars and just and even my wife is really good about noticing when it’s like, no. Let let him let him go with that. And so it’s it’s almost like I consider it, like, learning what are your tells. You know? Like, in poker, like, when someone’s to tell, like, we’re bluffing But we know a lot of the time, but what are the tells?

David Hall [00:44:35]:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:44:36]:
It’s good when our significant other or or family or people that we’re friends with can tell that. And And then, of course, when we can give them that little kind of signal and that they don’t take it personally like, oh, yeah. Yeah. This isn’t about me.

David Hall [00:44:50]:
Yeah. And so so I’m married to an introvert, and we have 3 kids, 2 extroverts, one introvert. Again, that was part of one of the that was one of the epiphanies that, oh, this is very natural. You know? We raised these 3 kids the same. They’re they each have their amazing own unique gifts. None of them are alike, but they’re each amazing in their own way. And so I think for my introvert, I think that that was I think he probably has it a little better than I did because, you know, we understood that kind of thing. Like, you know what? If he needs a little time alone, that’s okay. Right. But when you think of your own child or other, you know, folks that you’ve worked with, where’s that balance of you know, understanding what they need, but also giving them that support to really, you know, embrace their gifts and and not just, you know, not just stay in their room all the time. Where’s that balance as a parent to really help that that introvert giving them the right I don’t know if push is the right word, but, you know, respecting who they are, but helping them be the best person they could be as well.

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:45:58]:
Yeah. I mean, I think it’s a really interesting balancing act. Just like what you’re saying, it’s really learning, like, what is the nature that we’re working with what is the temperament and style? Like, what are the give ins? Like, what are the the given things that make this child go? And then also what are the areas where we can expand them? And sometimes take them a little bit out of their comfort zone, but in a way that can kind of still feel like it fits with the fullness of who they can be. And, you know, and I so I think that that is a really interesting combination that we’re always trying to do. I think it’s actually the thing that’s really interesting about therapy too is because, you know, the funny thing about therapy is, like, you know, you wanna both honor somebody as they are but also help them to change at the same time. And I think it’s it’s a lot about holding that paradigm. of I accept and and honor you who you are, your fundamental core, and I also wanna help to see how I can help you expand in ways that can add something here. And I think it’s the same way, like, yes, we wanna respect the introvert that wants to stay in, but we also wanna help them see that there are ways that they can find ways of getting outside of themselves that still feel more comfortable and that even though there might be some discomfort with some of it that it’s still worthwhile, just like if you have an extrovert child like you do, right, like, of, like, it might be great to be like, I’m so glad that you get along with so many people and have so many friends and have so many groups to be a part of. And yet, I also wanna kind of help you with the experience of being with yourself more and not feeling the need to jump to your phone or talking to somebody else because that’s valuable in of itself. But I might not push that to the same degree because I would understand, like, where is their capacity and where is their experience with that? And I think that’s where it also becomes really individual and also really creative. And I think that’s like a wonderful art that we’re always working on as parents, as therapists, as teachers. And I think honestly, the best teachers are really, really good at helping to highlight somebody’s strengths and and what they bring to the table, but also helping them to continually kind of open up. But in a way that doesn’t make them feel like they’re being pulled apart.

David Hall [00:48:22]:
Yeah. That’s that’s I love how you’d put that. That sounds great. We have talked about a lot of great things in this episode. Is there anything else that you wanna mention that we didn’t bring up yet?

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:48:38]:
Oh my gosh. I mean, I think people sometimes also don’t realize what a great sense of humor introverts have. And and and I think that’s also something that I’ve really been was charmed by in the group that I ran. about how clever, funny, engaging and and and really, really interesting. And I think sometimes, you know, like, the misconception about introverts in the past is that they’re loners or they’re socially anxious or the myths throughout or anything like that, which is really, really not true. But I think it’s just really refreshing to see that I actually think that introverts are so so wonderful in so many ways. And it’s it’s so cool that we’re celebrating that particular instrument.

David Hall [00:49:27]:
Yeah. Exactly. And, you know, it’s funny. There’s a lot of misconceptions, and it’s like, you know, introverts don’t have a lot to say, but I’ll actually say, I think we have a a lot to say because we’re always thinking. Right? It’s just — I think that’s so true. Yeah. The way we express that may be different because I’m gonna think about what I wanna say and say what’s most important to me where it’s just natural for the extrovert to to

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:49:54]:
speak while they’re thinking. You know? more so. Yeah. And, you know, I’m gonna think of questions or things that I wanted to say hours from now because I’m still gonna be processing the lovely conversation. And and sometimes, you know, that’s that’s the way we work. And I think that’s also something to appreciate, and it’s a difference in terms of tempo and style, but it’s got its own wonderfulness.

David Hall [00:50:22]:
Yeah. And, I mean, I think getting to know ourselves, you know, we can prepare as much as possible but it’s our conversations or presentations or whatever it is is never gonna be perfect. And, you know, you’ve said through this thing, you could really gotta give yourself a break. So Do your best preparation, but, hey. You know, I’ll probably think of something too after we’re done here, but I think we’ve had a really great conversation. I did prepare for it. But, you know, I you just gotta get to know yourself and what you need, where you do best, but also give yourself a break. just realized that we’re all people in. We can always get better and

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:51:03]:
that kind of — Yeah. And and and I think the other thing too, like you mentioned, is well is that we can also appreciate, like, how far we can go, how much territory we can cover because introverts do have that depth of range. And I think that is also something worth being like, that’s pretty cool.

David Hall [00:51:25]:
Yeah. Alright. Well, Michael, thank you so much for all the work you do with introverts and others. Good luck with your book coming out. Thank you. Wanna connect further and get to know more about you or your book? What’s the best way to do that? Yeah. You can always check me out at my website,

Dr. Michael Alcee [00:51:45]:
I actually have a psychology today blog called Live Life Creatively and the book is available for preorder all over the place. Amazon Barnes And Noble, you name it, so you’d be on the lookout for it. Alright. Well, thanks again for being on the show. This has been wonderful. Thanks for having me, David. It’s been a pleasure.

David Hall [00:52:02]:
Thank you so much for joining me today. I look forward to further connecting with you. Reach out at Check out the website, I’ll add social media channels for me and my guest to the show notes. Please comment on social media posts Send me topics or guests you’d like to see on the show. There’s so many great things about being an introvert, and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.

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