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Are you present in the moment with others?  Do others know that what matters to them matters to you?

Join David and his guest Dr. Mitch Abblett as they discuss the importance of Mindfulness (being present in the moment with those around you) and Prizing (valuing and seeing the PERSON for who they are rather than just praising an action that is important to you).   Dr. Abblett shares tips and strategies for prizing and mindfulness with children, teens, peers, employees, introverts, or extroverts.  Join us and discover how to connect with others in a more meaningful way.

The Art of Mindfulness and Prizing: A Conversation with Dr. Mitch Abblett

Welcome to another insightful episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast. I’m your host, David Hall, and today we have the pleasure of diving deep into the world of mindfulness and prizing with our esteemed guest, Dr. Mitch Abblett. Mitch is a clinical psychologist, author, and consultant whose latest book, Prize Worthy, seeks to enlighten parents, educators, and helping professionals on the art of meaningful connection.

In this episode, we explore the transformative effects of mindfulness on mental health, the concept of “momentology,” and the unique power of prizing. We also dive into Mitch’s personal journey, covering his struggles with anxiety, his path through academia, and his quest for an authentic connection in a commercialized world. Let’s break down our conversation into essential segments for a deeper understanding.

The Impact of Mindfulness on Mental Health

Mitch kicked off our discussion with an insightful look at mindfulness and its impact on mental health, especially concerning depression and anxiety disorders. He introduced the concept of “momentology,” which emphasizes the importance of noticing our habits and mental stories. The idea is to tune into the present moment and observe without judgment.

Mindfulness, as Mitch describes, is not just about meditation but a state of experience where the mind’s attention focuses on the present. This has profound implications for our mental well-being. Our conversation reaffirmed my belief in the power of mindfulness and the need to share it with others.

The Commercialization of Mindfulness

While mindfulness is gaining popularity, Mitch pointed out a concerning trend: its commercialization. Many practices and products branded under “mindfulness” lack authenticity. Mitch calls for more sincere ways of honoring the present moment with others. He shared that he recently paused various projects, including social media posting and writing, to return to a more authentic space. This pause allowed him to develop a new writing project that aligns more closely with his genuine experiences and insights.

Understanding Prizing vs. Praise

A significant portion of our discussion centered around the concept of “prizing,” which Mitch distinguishes from praise. Prizing involves being present and connecting with others without an agenda or hierarchy. It’s about recognizing and valuing others’ emotional needs and behavior with curiosity and understanding rather than reacting based on our own feelings or narratives.

Developing the skill of prizing requires a willingness to make mistakes, letting go of assumptions, and observing without reacting. This practice can rewire our brains, leading to decreased tendencies to see borders and boundaries and fostering a more compassionate response rather than reactive empathy.

The Journey to Mindfulness: Mitch’s Story

Mitch shared his personal journey to becoming a clinical psychologist, marked by struggles with social phobia, changing majors, dropping out of law school, and eventually finding his passion for psychology. His interest in psychology blossomed after watching a talk show, and this newfound passion led him to explore mindfulness and meditation as tools to overcome his anxiety.

There’s something about physically writing in a journal and just capturing what my experience has been, what thoughts are arising, what ideas I have.”— Mitch Abblet 

Quiet and Strong Podcast – Ep 82

During graduate school, Mitch faced significant anxiety and described a compulsive aspect to his personality, driven by OCD and social anxiety. This compulsiveness was both a hindrance and a motivator. Over time, he realized that his life experiences didn’t align with the negative narrative his mind had created.

The Strength of Introversion

Our conversation naturally transitioned into the strengths of introversion. Mitch cited solitude and journaling as valuable tools for processing experiences. Introverts, he explained, have a profound capacity for deep reflection and contemplation, which can be harnessed through intentional practices like meditation.

The Role of Pain and Self-Compassion

Mitch provided an engaging perspective on pain, describing it as an energy and a message that needs attention. He emphasized the importance of relating to pain and bringing awareness to it, which can open up one’s life. We also discussed the societal challenge of accepting and owning mistakes. Mitch advocates for authentically acknowledging errors and developing self-compassion, while being cautious of negative rumination.

Parenting and Teaching Children About Pain

We concluded our conversation with a focus on parenting. Mitch stressed the importance of being present with a child’s pain and modeling the ability to hold and care for one’s own pain. Instead of trying to make the pain go away immediately, parents should demonstrate reflective capacity and self-compassion. This approach teaches children to embrace their discomfort, leading to more resilient and emotionally intelligent individuals.

Key Takeaways

Here are a few key takeaways from Episode 82 – “Mindfulness and Prizing with Dr. Mitch Abblett” of The Quiet And Strong Podcast:

  • Mindfulness vs. Commercialization: While mindfulness is gaining popularity, Mitch Abblett emphasizes the need for authentic practices beyond commercialized versions.
  • Mindfulness Practice: It involves paying attention to the present moment without judgment and doesn’t solely rely on meditation.
  • Prizing vs. Praise: Prizing is about being present and connecting authentically without an agenda, unlike praise, which often creates a hierarchy.
  • Neuroscience of Mindfulness: Consistent mindfulness practice can rewire the brain, encouraging more compassionate responses and reducing reactive behaviors.
  • Addressing Pain Mindfully: Pain should be acknowledged and attended to rather than avoided, teaching children by modeling acceptance of one’s own pain.
  • Personal Journey: Mitch Abblett shares his journey through social phobia, OCD, and anxiety, highlighting the importance of reflection, mindfulness, and meditation in overcoming these challenges.
  • Introversion: Introversion is recognized as a strength that allows for deep reflection, contemplation, and successful mindfulness practice.

These takeaways encapsulate the essence of the conversation and provide valuable insights into mindfulness, prizing, and personal growth.

Make Changes Now

Here are a few actions you can take immediately after listening to this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast:

  1. Initiate a Mindfulness Practice:
  • Spend a few minutes each day in mindful reflection. You don’t need to meditate formally; just focus on your breathing, notice your surroundings, and observe your thoughts without judgment.
  1. Practice “Prizing”:
  • Start to prize others by engaging in conversations with genuine curiosity and without an agenda. Make an effort to really listen and understand people’s perspectives without trying to change or influence them.
  1. Reflect on Your Emotional Responses:
  • Take time to notice how you react to different situations and interactions. Identify moments when your emotions may be driving your reactions and practice bringing awareness to these times to avoid reactive behaviors.
  1. Acknowledge and Learn from Mistakes:
  • When you make a mistake, openly acknowledge it and view it as an opportunity for growth. Develop the habit of practicing self-compassion and reducing harsh self-judgment.
  1. Embrace Solitude and Journaling:
  • Set aside some time for intentional solitude. Use this time to journal or reflect on your experiences, thoughts, and feelings. It can help process emotions and enhance your understanding of yourself.
    By taking these steps, you can begin to integrate the concepts discussed by Mitch Abblet and David Hall into your daily life and improve your mental well-being.

My conversation with Dr. Mitch Abblett was enlightening and filled with practical wisdom. His journey underscores the transformative power of mindfulness and prizing in fostering genuine connections and improving mental health. As we move forward, let’s strive to practice mindfulness authentically and appreciate the present moment and the people around us.

To connect further with Mitch Abblett and learn more about his work, tune into this episode and explore his latest book, Prize Worthy. Stay curious, stay present, and continue your journey towards mindfulness.

Thank you for joining me on The Quiet And Strong Podcast. As always, I invite you to share your thoughts and experiences. Let’s continue this fascinating conversation and grow together.

Feel free to leave your comments or questions below and don’t forget to subscribe for more insightful episodes. Until next time, stay quiet and strong.

Dr. Mitch Abblett is a private practice clinical psychologist, author, consultant, and national/international speaker. Dr. Abblett’s latest book is aimed at parents, educators, and helping professionals – Prizeworthy: How to Meaningfully Connect, Build Character and Unlock the Potential of Every Child. Dr. Abblett’s work has appeared in numerous online and print media such as The New York Times, Newsweek, Tricycle Magazine, and USA Today. His frequent blog posts regarding mindfulness applications in family and relationships can be found in Mindful Magazine’s companion website A clinician in the Boston area for over 20 years, he brings a wealth of clinical, administrative, and leadership experience from various settings to his practice and consulting. For 11 years he served as the Clinical Director of the Manville School at Judge Baker Children’s Center in Boston – a Harvard Medical School-affiliated therapeutic school program for children and adolescents with emotional, behavioral, and learning difficulties. He has also served as the Executive Director of the Institute for Meditation and Psychotherapy. He lives with his wife and two young children in Newton, Massachusetts.

Get Dr. Abblett’s Books:

Prizeworthy: How to Meaningfully Connect, Build Character, and Unlock the Potential of Every Child

See more books and resources from Dr. Abblett here.

Contact Dr. Abblett:

Contact the host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:

David Hall
Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster

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Podcast Transcript:

00;00;00;01 – 00;00;47;15
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Prizing. If it’s really prizing is without agenda. The only agenda is that moment. The only agenda is connection. There’s no like I is the adland and trying to get you to see something. It’s I as the adults see something. And yet I could be wrong. And yet I experience something that may matter to you. And I just wanted to let you know that that what may matter to you matters to me.

00;00;49;29 – 00;01;14;06
David Hall
Hello and welcome to episode 82 of the Quiet and Strong Podcast, especially for introverts. I’m your host, David Hall, and the creator of Quiet Strong Gqom. This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, while there are each episode on a monday, be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform.

00;01;14;21 – 00;01;46;29
David Hall
Leave a review. Tell a friend. Help get the word out there. Dr. Mitch Ablett is a private practice clinical psychologist, author, consultant and national and international speaker. Dr. Abbott’s latest book is aimed at parents, educators and helping professionals praiseworthy how to meaningfully connect, build character and unlock the potential of every child. Dr. Abbott’s work has appeared in numerous online and print media, such as The New York Times, Newsweek, Tricycle Magazine and USA Today.

00;01;47;25 – 00;02;28;07
David Hall
His frequent blog posts regarding mindfulness applications and family and relationships can be found in Mindful magazine’s companion website. Mindful that Oric, a clinician in the Boston area for over 20 years, he brings a wealth of clinical, administrative and leadership experience from various settings hospitals, outpatient clinics, residential facilities and therapeutic schools to his practice and consulting. For 11 years, he served as the clinical director of the middle school at Judge Baker Children’s Center in Boston, a Harvard Medical School affiliated therapeutic school program for children and adolescents with emotional, behavioral and learning difficulties.

00;02;28;29 – 00;02;43;02
David Hall
He’s also served as the executive director of the Institute for Mediation and Psychotherapy. He lives with his wife and two young children in Newton, Massachusetts. All right. Welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Mitch.

00;02;44;11 – 00;02;45;16
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Thanks for having me, David.

00;02;46;01 – 00;03;11;09
David Hall
It’s so good to have you. So we are going to get into your work on mindfulness in your latest book, Prize Worthy about what it means to be in the moment and prize, especially your children or others. Before we do that, let’s talk a little just tell us about your journey to becoming a clinical psychologist and author speaker podcaster.

00;03;11;23 – 00;03;13;06
David Hall
Yeah. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

00;03;13;15 – 00;03;43;00
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Yeah, yeah. Was not the plan originally as it is for a lot of people. I think the I you know, I know the focus or theme of your podcast around introversion. Card carrying on my end and you know beyond introversion which as you and I have chatted about before they’re not one in the same. You know, I would say undiagnosed like social phobia.

00;03;43;00 – 00;04;13;28
Dr. Mitch Abblett
When I was a kid and into, you know, I would say up through grad school. And so and that really affected what I thought I was going to do. And so, like in college, I jumped around majors quite a bit because of the uncertainty as to what I was going to do. And I was poly sci for a while, and then I was English and then history, and then back to English.

00;04;13;28 – 00;04;36;07
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And then I landed on history and I loved it. Still love history, but then toward the end of college and like, okay, now what am I going to do with this? Either I’m going to teach in high school, which should be fine, but it didn’t feel right. Go to grad school for history or and go to law school and I guess I’ll go to law school.

00;04;37;01 – 00;05;10;07
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And that was about the extent of thought I put into me going to law school, which for a socially phobic 21 year old was a disaster. I, I went to Florida State back in 90 was fall of 94, I think. And I, it was just it was excruciating. And I, you know, the anxiety went through the roof. So I ended up quitting in the middle of the first year of law school.

00;05;10;07 – 00;05;32;21
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And I had zero plan as to what I was going to do next. And, you know, it sounds like a made up story, but it’s legit. The truth. I had no idea. Idea what I was going to do. I was depressed, you know, sitting at home watching a morning talk show, you know, with bed head and a bathrobe on.

00;05;32;21 – 00;06;03;03
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And the Jerry Springer Show comes on. And as you know, back then, they the FCC wasn’t regulating stuff. And so there were melees up on the stage between people. And I remember watching this, I’m like, these people need some help. Wait, who does that psychologist do that? I had never taken a psych class, you know, had no psychologists or therapists in my, you know, network growing up.

00;06;03;29 – 00;06;37;26
Dr. Mitch Abblett
That was literally and that’s not how I view my patients obviously now. But it was the original, like trigger thought. And then I went to the library and did a introvert thing, know I got some books on Psych, started reading, and I was completely fascinated. And then I got laser focused on getting into grad school. And then I, you know, I was able to stay at Florida State for I had to do a year of post baccalaureate psych major stuff and research with a professor to be able to even apply.

00;06;38;28 – 00;07;09;18
Dr. Mitch Abblett
But I got lucky. I was able to get in to the doctoral program in clinical psych at Florida State and then graduated in 2000. And that’s what brought me to Boston was to do my pre doc internship at the VA here and here in Boston. So, you know, that’s what got me into psychology, but it was like my like suffering aspect, the anxiety that kind of I think I was trying to deal with it at some level by going into law school, but I wasn’t ready to.

00;07;09;18 – 00;07;37;25
Dr. Mitch Abblett
I didn’t have the tools. Got totally flooded, overwhelmed, pulled back, ended up in training as a psychologist. Worked on it a bit. You know, I became a teaching assistant and had to get up in front of 200 undergrads and teach intro psych and that actually there was exposure therapy. I really, you know, got better with it but still was not into mindfulness or meditation.

00;07;37;26 – 00;08;04;00
Dr. Mitch Abblett
I thought it was new age hooey back then, and it was not what my training was. You know, I got into the mindfulness game when I was on the job as a brand new clinical director of a therapeutic school for kids with emotional and behavioral issues here in Boston. This was this is going back, I don’t know, 17, 18 years.

00;08;04;21 – 00;08;35;20
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And I was burning out. I was responsible for a staff of 20, and they were facing really tough work. And so I was looking for tools and I had heard about a branch of psychotherapy, mindfulness based psychotherapy called Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, and had read a little bit about it. But I, I began reading more and then bringing it to my, my client, my work at the school and in a small private practice I had.

00;08;36;10 – 00;09;19;25
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And then, unlike other behavior, change stuff as a psychologist, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy or psychodynamic stuff, I, I could learn that stuff and then do it with patients. But this was the mindfulness was the kind of thing where you can’t really do it with someone unless you’re doing it yourself on yourself. So I really started my own personal meditation practice many years ago back then, and and that that really kind of was a tipping point around the anxiety aspect for me and just getting more focused on what I wanted to do.

00;09;19;25 – 00;09;36;06
David Hall
Oh, wow. Thank you. That’s a great story. So anxiety was overwhelming to go to law school still. I mean, graduate school to become a psychologist is still very challenging. How did you deal with that as you were going into graduate school for psychology? How did you deal with your anxiety?

00;09;36;26 – 00;10;11;28
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Yeah, it was it was not one thing I had, you know, I’m going to do the air quotes. So I’m saying, yeah, yeah. Let’s see that one thing I had going for me that helped in this regard was a hindrance in many, many others was my compulsive aspect. You know, you know, there there is a, you know, strong and I’ve been working to channel it into healthier and healthier, you know, manifestations over the years.

00;10;12;13 – 00;10;37;14
Dr. Mitch Abblett
But when I was a kid, I was this in addition to the social anxiety, I was a silent suffer from, you know, kind of an unusual form of OCD. You know, I wasn’t doing like the cleaning and checking kind of stuff, but I was compulsive around, you know, school in particular. When I was a kid, I would over study, you know, it wasn’t as bad.

00;10;37;14 – 00;11;07;29
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And elementary school, but I would say middle middle school or in Florida, it was called junior high, high school and college. Like I was like people would think I was driven and I was doing really well and ended up the salutatorian of my college class and whatnot. But it was a lot of suffering pressing me so that that got me to show up to things and just keep going.

00;11;08;15 – 00;11;18;17
Dr. Mitch Abblett
So there was an upside in terms of getting things done, but a big downside in terms of the pressure I put on myself.

00;11;18;17 – 00;11;24;03
David Hall
So that was still it was still ongoing journey for you when you first started graduate school.

00;11;24;23 – 00;11;49;20
Dr. Mitch Abblett
It was still there. The anxiety the social anxiety was still there. As I started teaching, I’m like, Oh, wow, I can do this stuff. And I started to kind of, you know, my experience in the moment was not matching the narrative I had in my head about myself. They’re going to think I’m stupid if I if I get up and talk, I’m going to sound ridiculous.

00;11;50;07 – 00;12;15;18
Dr. Mitch Abblett
You know, the actual experience was people are responding well to this and I’m enjoying this. I’m actually excited. And, you know, the same kind of body sensations that I had labeled previously is like intense anxiety, started to be signs that I’m like, you know, I’m my keyed up. I’m into this. So, you know, I think that got a lot better.

00;12;15;18 – 00;12;51;01
Dr. Mitch Abblett
But the learning to notice the have to you know push you know I’ve called it next thing always into the next moment. This is where the mindfulness practice has been and continues to be crucial for me to kind of notice that kind of compulsive push toward something or trying to pull something in. And so and instead be able to kind of accept what is more and more.

00;12;51;01 – 00;12;54;01
Dr. Mitch Abblett
So that’s ongoing. It’s way better than it used to be.

00;12;55;02 – 00;13;05;18
David Hall
Yeah. So when we talk last we talked about introversion and you know, what would you say your strengths are as an introvert? And also what have you really found that you need? Is an introvert.

00;13;06;15 – 00;14;04;18
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate when you and I talked about this before and I you know, as a psychologist, I’ve thought about introvert in quite a bit and talking about it a lot with patients of mine. And then, you know, for myself, you know, what I found to be a strength of mind around that. That again is completely outside of the anxiety component is, you know, I really value this reflective you know, I would call it solitude that I end up in and that I, I will drop back into that frequently, if not daily for little pockets just to, you know, really deeply process and contemplate my experience of things.

00;14;04;18 – 00;14;35;13
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And then, you know, I have an endless collection of journals and I’ve tried journaling on my computer. And there’s something about like physically writing in a, in a journal and just, you know, capturing, you know, what my experience has been, what thoughts are arising, what ideas I have that that seems to be something that is given to me over and over and over again.

00;14;35;13 – 00;15;01;10
Dr. Mitch Abblett
You know that. I know I didn’t invent that. You know, I didn’t invent introversion. I didn’t invent contemplation, you know. But it also feels awesome to read like Marcus Aurelius meditations and know that, oh, here is a guy that, you know, 2000 years ago was literally the most powerful person on the planet at the time. And obviously, you and I don’t know for certain, I’m betting the mortgage money.

00;15;01;10 – 00;15;24;19
Dr. Mitch Abblett
He was an introvert and he also dialed in to reflection and solitude. And, you know, he didn’t write that for publication. It was his private journal. And, you know, to feel like you’re doing something that has resonated with many, many millions for forever, you know, that’s kind of cool.

00;15;24;19 – 00;15;44;00
David Hall
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s the thing. It’s a deep thinking. It’s a gift of introverts. And I love how you said that. You know, you have to capture those ideas. That’s something that I talk about a lot. It’s like we have some great ideas and we have to learn to capture those. And I’m excited to get into the mindfulness piece of that too.

00;15;44;11 – 00;16;03;24
David Hall
But that’s definitely a gift that we have. There’s a lot of misconceptions about introversion, you know, it doesn’t mean shy. You can be shy, but you can also overcome shyness or overcome anxiety like you were talking about. I’ve overcome shyness and I’ve overcome anxiety. And mine was really from just understanding my introversion that that did it for me.

00;16;03;24 – 00;16;11;29
David Hall
So yeah. What have you learned that you need as an introvert?

00;16;11;29 – 00;16;39;22
Dr. Mitch Abblett
My initial the word initially part of my mind is time, you know, but it feels like it’s more a it’s like it’s like a cadence that I need. I know, like I love my family, I love my friends, you know, as I’m sure you likely have experience and many others, you know, a lot of that or a lot of intensity of that.

00;16;40;10 – 00;17;11;18
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And I’m like literally internally vibrating in a way that’s not comfortable. And I need to move away physically and in time and space so that I can kind of go in and do the capturing. And but it’s a cadence. I need things to, you know, go from the wall on my wall and just, you know, it doesn’t have to be completely silent, but it has to be intentional.

00;17;12;18 – 00;17;24;19
Dr. Mitch Abblett
I have to kind of go into my intentional, reflective, your meditative space and it doesn’t have to be for long, but I do need that.

00;17;25;15 – 00;17;45;17
David Hall
Yeah, absolutely. I love that you said that. I love and need my family, my friends. I’m enjoying this conversation that we’re having right now. They’re looking forward to it. But yeah, I need some time every day. I need some time. You know, and and sometimes I need longer periods of time, you know. But I we all, as humans need connection to it.

00;17;45;17 – 00;17;49;16
David Hall
It might just look different between introverts and extroverts. So I love how you said that.

00;17;49;28 – 00;17;50;11
Dr. Mitch Abblett

00;17;51;21 – 00;18;00;10
David Hall
So you’ve written and speak a lot about mindfulness. Tell us what is that? What is mindfulness?

00;18;00;10 – 00;18;03;01
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Can’t can’t be put into words.

00;18;03;07 – 00;18;03;20
David Hall

00;18;04;28 – 00;18;48;16
Dr. Mitch Abblett
So I could just sit here and then people would be like, what? But you know, it it is an experience that is intentional, that it’s kind of like I was just saying, it’s an intentional dropping in and out and you know, yeah, the standard verbal definition, you know, and it’s a good one. John KABAT Zinn’s definition, you know, paying attention on purpose to the present moment without judgment, you know, and I think that has some key elements.

00;18;48;16 – 00;19;29;28
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And that it’s not just the intentionality, you know, the you know, the mind’s attention mechanism is in the now and it’s letting go of the labeling, critical judging mind and just more in a raw way, observing what is, you know. So that’s the best that can be done. I think with words, what I’ve done when I’ve done live trainings, I’ve done this many times, I’ve had different versions of a video clip where I’ll ask people like you did, what is mindfulness?

00;19;29;28 – 00;19;54;01
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And some people will say stuff and then I will basically via them arrive at the John KABAT-ZINN definition, and then inevitably if you have a large group of people, people are writing it down and then I will notice people writing it down. And I’ll say everybody that’s been writing down this definition, take your pen or your pencil right now and cross it out.

00;19;55;12 – 00;20;24;00
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And no offense to John, but go ahead and cross it out. And now just sit for a minute for a second and now watch this video. And I would show a video of it was like from a newsreel. I grabbed it off of YouTube years ago. This little boy, you look like he’s about four or five who was one of the first success for cochlear implant patients.

00;20;24;23 – 00;20;54;14
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And so he you know, I think he had been born deaf, but this implant has been, you know, you know, you know, he had it inserted and now it’s turned on for the first time. And now his father says his name and he hears it physically for the first time. And it’s that moment of complete recognition of the novelty in that moment.

00;20;54;25 – 00;21;20;08
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And I’ll pause the video mindfulness. That kid’s mind is in the now the dad’s mind is in the now. And what about yours? Is there any judgment? Is there any wondering about next? So, yeah, it’s it’s really easy. People have been mindful many times, even if they haven’t meditated.

00;21;20;08 – 00;21;23;06
David Hall
Yeah. So it doesn’t always mean like meditation, right?

00;21;24;01 – 00;21;45;00
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Yeah. That’s the typical misnomer is that mindfulness equals the form of practice, which is meditation. But mindfulness is traditionally and going way back before, John, you know, thousands of years, it is a state of experience.

00;21;46;05 – 00;21;50;17
David Hall
What’s the problem when we’re not mindful? What does that look like.

00;21;52;13 – 00;22;24;27
Dr. Mitch Abblett
It is doing what our brains are wired to do, which is, you know, our brains, according to most modern neuroscientists, there’s a lot of misnomer out there about the brain. There’s a lot of confusion. You know, the whole triune brain like the you know, the you know, we have the most the humans have the evolved four brain. And then there’s the reptilian brain that is all a that’s an error.

00;22;24;27 – 00;23;06;11
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Or, you know, that’s a misnomer about the brain. It’s been perpetuated by people in my field. Even still, current neuroscience would say that our brain is an anticipation machine and it’s constantly be processing, you know, anticipating what the body needs and coordinating the of this network. And really instead of like thinking in terms of like parts of the brain and structures of the brain, it’s more like this massively intricate network and it’s never, never off.

00;23;06;11 – 00;23;43;08
Dr. Mitch Abblett
It’s, you know, it’s all in to the moment we die. It’s constantly interacting with itself. And so the our our brain is constantly regulating and anticipating the body’s needs and it’s filtering and anticipating threat and promise of reward or food or whatever from the environment. And that’s what it’s supposed to do, you know. So it’s not that it’s bad or wrong, it’s that, you know, we now live in a world where, yes, there are dangers and whatnot.

00;23;43;08 – 00;24;13;02
Dr. Mitch Abblett
But, you know, we have a relative, most of us a relative luxury of time and space and safety and most basic needs met that, you know, unlike our paleo paleolithic ancestors, we can meditate and we can actually hover our minds in the present moment in a way that would have been dangerous to do so. And, you know, eons ago.

00;24;13;26 – 00;24;59;26
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And so what we’re realized, you know, our society, though, has developed according to what our brain is wired to do, anticipate things, try and grab rewards, avoid punishment, you know, you know, react based on the needs of the ego, the self. And so the world around us is a proliferation of what our brain is wired to do. The thing is, it’s going to be our own demise if we don’t learn to really rewire the brain intentionally, to not just be reactive, to just not think self versus other, you know, it’s kind of a nuanced thing.

00;24;59;26 – 00;25;46;23
Dr. Mitch Abblett
It’s hard to describe, but it’s not that it’s like good or bad. It’s our brains create distinctions and separations because that’s what they’re wired to do. And this is where I’m biased, obviously, but mindfulness practice and we know this from neuroscience, it changes the structure of the brain. It decreases these tendencies toward immediately seeing borders and boundaries, and me versus them changes the way we relate to pain in it, changes us from empathic reactivity, you know, a lot of the parents I work with will over empathize with their kids.

00;25;47;11 – 00;26;16;13
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And that leads to a kind of tunnel vision where they don’t see things clearly and then they end up being too reactive to the kid or to others around their kid versus what comes from meditation in which is compassion. So instead of empathy, which can have a serious downside and there’s research on this, not just me making it up, compassion is being able to be with others pain.

00;26;16;27 – 00;26;48;13
Dr. Mitch Abblett
You know, that’s literally the compassion with pain, but but also spacious. Like, you see their pain, you feel their pain, but you also see everything else. And so you can respond and versus just react. And so this is where, you know, where with practice we can actually involve ourselves as a way from the brains that we inherited to be able to see less separation.

00;26;48;23 – 00;26;52;03
Dr. Mitch Abblett
That feels relevant to me these days.

00;26;52;03 – 00;27;03;08
David Hall
Yeah, absolutely. So how does somebody start down that path if they’re not being mindful? Probably so long journey, but how do you start down the path?

00;27;03;22 – 00;27;36;21
Dr. Mitch Abblett
You just start, you know, there’s they’re living proof. There is no perfection in with this stuff. I told you before we started, you know, I’m, you know, my book is on like praising kids. I’ve worked with kids for problematic behavior for over 20 years. And I snapped and lashed out at my son this morning. And so, you know, the practice is the willingness and intention to practice.

00;27;37;15 – 00;28;02;28
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And a big piece to that is I just messed that up. Let me come back to practice again. What I did. Yeah, it’s interesting this morning I did it wasn’t horrible. But I, you know, I got mad when he would his ridiculous with me. My son and I set a limit which was appropriate, but I was angry. And so my tone was overly angry.

00;28;02;28 – 00;28;35;08
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And I think it hurt his feelings. And, you know, I remember getting in the car, he was quiet. I could kind of see in the rearview mirror he was upset. And that’s when I tried to practice a bit. I noticed what was showing up in me and the narrative of I’m sick of him doing this stuff when he needs to just realize cause and effect and you know, the effect is behavior on it, you know, felt true.

00;28;35;08 – 00;29;06;00
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And the more I adhere to that and create a separation, me, him, I was missing what I call the prize in him in that moment, which was he was, you know, emotionally feeling disconnected from me and probably ashamed. You know, part of it is that you just never know exactly what the other person’s truth is, but it’s the intention to be curious that is mindful.

00;29;06;24 – 00;29;37;14
Dr. Mitch Abblett
So I, I reached back while I was driving and put my hand near where he was and it took him a solid minute before he took my hand and didn’t me and I took the limit away. You know, he still lost his iPad for a while and he gets home today from camp. But I wanted him to know that I was there and that I realized that he was upset.

00;29;37;14 – 00;30;22;27
Dr. Mitch Abblett
So ain’t no perfection in there. But it’s the showing back up with the intention to see behind and others behavior that they have a need. They may have been unskillful about how they were behaving, but but that is I mean, I give that as an example. That’s like everyday stuff for people and you just keep being willing to be curious, what am I missing if I keep buying into the chatter in my head, my narrative, if I just keep reacting based on the heat of my feelings in the moment versus let me be curious about what I need, you know, let me listen to my mind without believing it.

00;30;24;16 – 00;30;27;00
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And then how can I show up to others?

00;30;28;20 – 00;30;46;22
David Hall
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I think that’s so important to remember that it’s a journey and we’re not perfect. You’re not perfect. You’re not perfect. But we can get continue to get better and live more in the moment with ourselves and with the other really important people in our lives like you’re talking about.

00;30;47;01 – 00;30;48;02
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Yep. Yep.

00;30;49;11 – 00;31;02;14
David Hall
So your latest book, it’s I’m going to read the whole title here, prize worthy How to Meaningfully Connect, Build, Character and Unlock the Potential of Every Child. So you’ve been talking a little bit about this. What is prizing?

00;31;03;26 – 00;31;45;07
Dr. Mitch Abblett
It’s a it’s mindfulness of the moment of interaction in the book. It’s focused on kids like a parent to kid or teacher to kid or clinician to kid. And as I was telling you before we started, I really intended the book originally me and continue to view it as it’s like a paradigm for the moment of interaction with another and I’m I chose the term and used the term prizing very intentionally because I want to make a distinction from praise.

00;31;46;21 – 00;32;35;27
Dr. Mitch Abblett
You know, praise can be a really good thing, but praise as usual tends to have an agenda to it. Like particular, if it’s an adult to a kid, hey kid, do more of that thing. I, as the adult want you to do more of that. So I’m praising you for that. It has an inherent hierarchy to it, and not always, but often it can be done in a kind of from a control agenda that the kid can perceive as condescending, and they feel the control of even praise, and it can therefore create the separate nation between the two people.

00;32;35;27 – 00;33;10;01
Dr. Mitch Abblett
So and there’s tons, you know, tons of research on their downsides of praise, not just with kids praising. If it’s really prizing is without agenda. The only agenda is that moment. The only agenda is connection. There’s no like I is the adult and trying to get you to see something. It’s I as the adult see something and yet I could be wrong.

00;33;10;17 – 00;33;39;12
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And yet I experience something that may matter to you. And I just wanted to let you know that that that what may matter to you matters to me. And it can be done with words. It can be a gesture like me. Put my hand back to my son when he was upset. It is it is a gift of presence from one person to there.

00;33;39;12 – 00;34;03;25
Dr. Mitch Abblett
I am here in my experience, in my present moment truth, and I’m willing to be curious and accepting of whatever yours is doesn’t mean you don’t set limits if you’re dealing with a kid or if you have a coworker. Is being ridiculous doesn’t mean that you don’t set a boundary. You know, you can say you have a truth over there or something is not right for you.

00;34;03;25 – 00;34;34;05
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Or I may have done something I messed and here’s what’s not working for me that can still be a pricing move. So it’s a way of seeing in a way of acting, in addition to the distinction from praise. I think in the West in particular, we tend to have a view of prizes. You have a prize focused society like I want to get mine, I want to get my prize.

00;34;35;05 – 00;35;04;14
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And though I don’t expect this book in and of itself is going to do it, it’s an attempt to highlight the problem with a prize focused external in paradigm and to instead like the real prize, the reframe prize is here in the now between us it’s the space joining us.

00;35;04;14 – 00;35;34;25
David Hall
So I think you made a really good distinction for me just now. It’s like with praising if I’m praising you, I’m saying thank you. You did something that matters to me, but I may not be acknowledging what matters to you. And those things can be very different. And I know I’ve experienced that. I still experience that where I do want people to understand what matters to me, not just be a matter of what somebody else is expecting.

00;35;35;03 – 00;35;43;12
David Hall
It’s really kind of seeing that person for their uniqueness and their gifts and that type of thing. Is that how you’re seeing this?

00;35;43;12 – 00;36;24;17
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Yeah, that’s really well put. That’s exactly it. And it is. It seems like a like I’m splitting hairs, but I think then that hair split is all the difference. I think even the kids that I’ve worked with, with massive social pragmatics and processing and emotional issues, they can feel if you’re showing up to prizing on the one side or the hair or praise on the other, they can feel where you’re not resonating in mindful curiosity as to what may matter to them as them letting go of what your perceptions and agendas are.

00;36;24;25 – 00;36;51;24
Dr. Mitch Abblett
I think they can feel it, and I think the vast, vast majority of people can feel that. And it’s what makes all the difference, you know, in it. It is a skill. I don’t think it’s something that some people are just born able to do. Oh, some people can do the praising thing, some people can’t. That’s like saying, well, some people are empathic and some people aren’t.

00;36;52;14 – 00;37;20;02
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Now prizing is something I had to learn to do, even though I’ve always been an empathic individual, I had to actually learn to dial down my empathy, to not over feel other people in order to start resonating and what I would call prizing and and that that is a skill I think it’s very learnable.

00;37;20;02 – 00;37;33;13
David Hall
Yeah. So how do we do that? Because I think that I’ve come a long way. I think I’ve developed the skill a little bit and definitely not perfect. I have a lot more to go, but how do we develop that skill of prizing?

00;37;34;24 – 00;37;35;27
Dr. Mitch Abblett
So I coming.

00;37;35;27 – 00;37;37;14
David Hall
Across as authentic and.

00;37;37;29 – 00;38;06;11
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Yeah, I was just using it in working with some parents last week in my office. I think it’s in the book. I can’t remember if it made it through the final copy. Edit I heard Jane Goodall speak to primatologists some years ago and I, you know, from a distance have followed her work. And and I, when people ask is like, how do you begin to, you know, how did she do what she did?

00;38;06;27 – 00;38;59;19
Dr. Mitch Abblett
How did she go from being a scientist who wanted to get in there with the chimps in the wild to actually discovering things that no one else had discovered? Very smart people in her field. She got super willing to a mess up over and over again. She had this burning intention to keep showing up and to keep letting go of her agendas and her assumptions and just keep observing, noticing it and getting herself out of the way so that those chimps felt felt by her.

00;38;59;19 – 00;39;22;10
Dr. Mitch Abblett
They’re their normal protective like threat mechanisms took a took weeks and weeks, months and months for them to actually view her as part of them part of their we and then she learned all kinds of stuff that no one else learned before that in my mind is the analogy. How do you how do you show up that there’s no hack?

00;39;23;03 – 00;39;24;13
Dr. Mitch Abblett
There’s there’s no like what?

00;39;24;13 – 00;39;25;15
David Hall
You’re supposed to give us a hack.

00;39;25;24 – 00;39;48;13
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Yeah. The hack is to sit and start noticing, you know, your everyone listening is going to have interactions today that you will be missing stuff. And if you just set an intention of you’re still going to be talking and doing, you’re not gonna be able to say, Hey, I’m going to go over here and sit on a cushion and observe for 15 minutes.

00;39;49;06 – 00;40;21;21
Dr. Mitch Abblett
You know, you can still be an interaction, but just set the intention. What is it that I can notice without just reacting notice in your own body and mind that’s super important. What are the thoughts that pop for me when so-and-so is doing stuff? What’s the surge in my body or the subtle in my body? And then what seems to matter to them for them that I might tend to miss?

00;40;22;09 – 00;40;26;27
Dr. Mitch Abblett
If you do that occasionally you’re going to notice stuff.

00;40;26;27 – 00;40;36;22
David Hall
And I like how you said that sometimes, you know, we just need to get out of the way to, you know, take ourselves out of it. So I think that’s tough for most everybody to do.

00;40;38;01 – 00;41;22;28
Dr. Mitch Abblett
There is a pathological public health crisis, in my opinion, of an inability to own error in our society. I have to be right. I can’t be publicly viewed as wrong. And, you know, it’s one of the reasons why I try it in almost every public appearance. Give an example of me being wrong, and then I’ll ask people sometimes, like even though I just shared this Mich f up story, what happens to your view of my credibility in this moment is that you tell me honestly, you know, and people will say, you know, there’s more credibility.

00;41;23;23 – 00;41;50;17
Dr. Mitch Abblett
So even though that’s our pretty universal experience, if someone if they’re authentically owning an error that impacts others, we have this conditioning that I can’t acknowledge that publicly, and I view it as a major reason why we’re so stuck that we can’t just be in interaction with each other and say, You know what, I messed that up, or I could be wrong here.

00;41;50;17 – 00;41;57;03
Dr. Mitch Abblett
I’m confused. You know, I don’t know. I don’t know what the answer is to that.

00;41;57;03 – 00;42;06;23
David Hall
Yeah. And that’s the thing. It’s we’re so worried that that is going to impact our credibility. But I love how you said it really gives us more. You know, it really gives us more credibility.

00;42;07;17 – 00;42;07;28
Dr. Mitch Abblett

00;42;08;24 – 00;42;16;03
David Hall
Something profound. In your book, you wrote that this really jumped out at me. You said pain was an energy. What does that mean?

00;42;17;14 – 00;42;53;08
Dr. Mitch Abblett
It’s something. It’s a message. It’s a messenger. You know that something needs to be attended to in the body mind system. Yeah. And by metaphor, it’s like the check engine light on the dashboard. And it’s not bad, even though it’s aversive to feel it. You know, I can’t remember the name of there is a specific disorder where people cannot feel physical pain and it’s life threatening.

00;42;53;29 – 00;43;21;10
Dr. Mitch Abblett
You know, they they have to basically live in a bubble with 24/7 supervision or they’ll get hurt. No, hurt themselves. So we need pain. And it is it is you know, there’s physical pain. There’s emotional pain. The brain itself doesn’t make much distinction as to the, you know, source. Pain is pain. And it’s a it’s an energy. You know, it literally becomes an energy.

00;43;21;10 – 00;43;54;12
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And our you know, it’s not the thing that caused it in the environment. It becomes in energy. Moving through our system, how we relate to it determines so much for us. You know, it’s understandable. We want pain to go away, but if we learn to relate to it and bring awareness to it, it can teach us as to what those prizes are that can really open up our lives.

00;43;54;12 – 00;43;55;29
Dr. Mitch Abblett
So sustain telling me.

00;43;56;10 – 00;44;18;21
David Hall
Right. And your book is definitely focused on parenting and or for teachers or caregivers and we don’t want our kids to be in pain. No pain is a part of life. And, you know, I was thinking about this over the pandemic, you know, and I watched, you know my own kids go through that. And how do you how do you teach them about pain?

00;44;18;24 – 00;44;28;07
David Hall
And as you wrote in your book, you know, the messages that you get from pain, how do you how do you teach kids about that? Because they haven’t had the life experiences that we’ve had yet.

00;44;28;24 – 00;44;56;12
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Yeah. I the the knee jerk in me is to say that it ain’t going to come from a lecture from us. It’s about what we’ve experienced with pain or how to deal with pain. The real teaching, the real parenting is we show up to that moment with them when they are in pain. And as I’m sure you read in the beginning of my book, we played peekaboo with it like we do with a baby.

00;44;56;26 – 00;44;57;09
David Hall

00;44;58;20 – 00;45;27;08
Dr. Mitch Abblett
I see you experiencing that and that. And this is where it sounds like empathy. But, you know, a lot of parents in particular will then go too far with their empathy and try and make the boo boo, make the pain go away. I’m not saying you don’t offer caring support, but the pricing stance would have you messaging to them peekaboo.

00;45;27;08 – 00;45;58;05
Dr. Mitch Abblett
I see that there’s that pain. It matters to me that you’re in that pain. It matters to me how you view that pain. It matters to me what you choose to do in this next moment. And I’m here. And then it may also be sharing your experience in that moment. Like, you know, it’s hard for me to see you in pain and I’ve got my pain.

00;45;59;21 – 00;46;23;28
Dr. Mitch Abblett
I can hang out with this. That doesn’t get messaged enough. You know, I have a parent and a son in my office within the past week and the mom got choked up and I could, as I’ve seen thousands of times, she was then going into hyper drive into the lecturing mode, telling him what he needed to be doing.

00;46;24;12 – 00;46;53;22
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And I had to bring her back to noticing that message of pain that was showing up. So I’m watching her struggle to stay in that. I’m watching her son, noticing her struggle to stay in. And I was trying to foster the conditions where she could stay in her pain and yet and by by doing so model for her son.

00;46;53;22 – 00;47;16;22
Dr. Mitch Abblett
It’s okay to do that. I’m willing to do that because this matters to me to show you more and more that I’m willing to be in my experience of pain. It doesn’t mean that we divulge everything that’s raw for us to our kids or to others. But there’s a sense of wisdom that comes from practice. Yeah, this one.

00;47;16;22 – 00;47;37;06
Dr. Mitch Abblett
This one’s okay. It’s okay for them to see me struggle. And then by letting them see me struggle, I’m not actually struggling in the way that I have in the past. I’m actually kind of holding it, caring for that pain. And then they’re seeing that that’s the real parenting.

00;47;37;06 – 00;47;47;26
David Hall
Yeah, that’s just beautiful. Just really learning to be there with them, with their pain and understanding it’s their pain. You know, it’s not exactly like you might be experiencing it.

00;47;48;10 – 00;48;25;28
Dr. Mitch Abblett
That’s right. They they they may be each of your kids may be half of you genetically. Right. That’s you know, if they’re your biological kids, that’s the case. And yet that doesn’t mean that they’re experiencing anything close to what you’re experiencing of them. Right? I just as a therapist, working with kids that have been traumatized, neglected, various different psychological disorders, that has been the master key in my tool kit just to keep over and over, like, what’s that there?

00;48;25;28 – 00;48;54;27
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And you? I could be wrong over here. You know, I might. I’m. I might be missing things. You have to teach me about what matters to you and kids. They’re not used to that. Adults are not used to that. From another, you know, increasing in my practice is shifting more toward like coaching, you know, professionals and whatnot. All of this stuff that we’re talking about applies like someone in a boardroom.

00;48;56;16 – 00;49;12;22
Dr. Mitch Abblett
I have CEOs and entrepreneurs I work with where they’re learning seemingly for the first time how to really be present with themselves and others, even though they’re highly air quotes successful in the world.

00;49;12;22 – 00;49;22;03
David Hall
Yeah, let’s talk about that just for a second. So how do you learn to be present with yourself? How do you develop that self-compassion?

00;49;22;03 – 00;49;41;06
Dr. Mitch Abblett
It’s like you have to be Jane Goodall with yourself. This is, by the way, where I think introverts can have an advantage at times. We have that in general reflective capacity and it can go the other way, right where the reflective capacity can become rumination.

00;49;41;06 – 00;49;41;22
David Hall

00;49;41;27 – 00;50;17;03
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And get on a negative train about the self. And then that’s a real problem. And then we did things like disorders of depression or high levels of anxiety. And yet, you know, like a professional who then can pause and Jane Goodall themselves, but from a mindfulness perspective, I call it momentum ology. It’s not like studying the moment and then participating in the moment, and you can really start to notice, Oh yeah, there’s that habit in me again.

00;50;17;03 – 00;50;59;02
Dr. Mitch Abblett
There’s that mental story again. And then the more you notice it, it’s like, you know, mindfulness is like a universal solvent. It’s like water and it will like water not immediately, you know, melted, but it’ll it’ll work on it. And I just think, you as an adult can start to just notice yourself with a more of a space, internal space, so that instead of like kind of holding my hand up close to my face, instead of your reactions, feeling like this, covering your eyes and whatnot, you can, oh, I see you reaction.

00;51;00;07 – 00;51;11;14
Dr. Mitch Abblett
And this is different than the hacks around, you know, certain kind of breathing practices. It’s it’s a perceptual paradigm. It’s a way of learning to see.

00;51;11;14 – 00;51;29;13
David Hall
Yeah, that’s great. And we need to learn that for ourselves, but for everybody else to learn to like, like you said, I see you, you know, I see what you’re what you’re going through all of that. And we just need to somehow get that out to everybody.

00;51;29;13 – 00;52;00;04
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Mitch Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I think, I think there is a growing swell of people that are curious but there’s, there’s certainly mindfulness is, is a big deal. You know, John KABAT-ZINN, one of the people that we need to thank, you know, that he really brought it into the mainstream in health care and yet it’s getting kind of co-opted by the, you know, the commercial aspect.

00;52;00;04 – 00;52;24;15
Dr. Mitch Abblett
So, you know, we need we need ways of honoring the moment with each other. And I think there is a growing swell, despite all the evidence of turmoil and separation and disconnection. You know, I think if we just keep showing up to these small moments, they end up rippling out.

00;52;24;15 – 00;52;29;12
David Hall
Absolutely. So what’s what’s your latest project? What are you most excited about now?

00;52;30;12 – 00;53;11;28
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Well, that’s I knew you would ask is podcast is always ask me that. You know, I’ve been you know, I have been working on developing a lot of stuff. And then pretty recently I was like, I’m not sure I want to do all of that. And to be honest, it was like some of the core stuff I was thinking of putting together, you know, maybe I’ll return to it even my own podcast, which I love doing, you know, I haven’t been doing a writing project in a while and since that book came out, praiseworthy and I was noticing that the kind of the constant kind of social media posting and, you know, some of the

00;53;11;28 – 00;53;41;03
Dr. Mitch Abblett
repurposing of old material as blog posts and trying to create core stuff was getting sticky for me and making it harder to drop back into this space that is most true for me. So I’ve been kind of hitting pause on a lot of that, you know, very recently. And it’s interesting because as I’ve done that, you know, a writing project idea has arrived.

00;53;41;04 – 00;54;31;05
Dr. Mitch Abblett
It is you know, I’ve already kind of alerted my agent, like, hey, I’m thinking about this. And so she and I are going to talk about it. But you know, what’s cool is that I’m not super focused on like making it happen or trying to control an outcome. It would be about, you know, kind of learning to in myself, but then also, you know, try and teach what I have been learning about sidestepping the mental screwjob of selfhood and, and be able to kind of sidestep the self help, self-improvement, personal growth train that so many of us seem to get stuck on.

00;54;32;01 – 00;54;32;22
David Hall
Sounds good.

00;54;33;16 – 00;54;35;01
Dr. Mitch Abblett

00;54;35;01 – 00;54;45;07
David Hall
Mitch, this has been a wonderful conversation. I could go on for much longer, but where can people find out more about your books or the work that you’re doing?

00;54;45;28 – 00;54;55;25
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Yeah, my website is the the nexus of all things. My work w w w Dr. tablet dot com.

00;54;56;12 – 00;54;58;19
David Hall
Sounds good. And I’ll add that to the show notes too.

00;54;59;10 – 00;54;59;21
Dr. Mitch Abblett

00;55;00;10 – 00;55;07;23
David Hall
Well, thanks again, Mitch. This has been a wonderful conversation. I really appreciate it having you on two very important conversations. So thank you.

00;55;08;05 – 00;55;09;00
Dr. Mitch Abblett
Thank you, David.

00;55;10;29 – 00;55;35;16
David Hall
Thank you so much for joining me. I look forward to further connecting with you. Reach out to David at Quiet and Strong E-Comm or check out the Web site. Quite strong dot com. It includes blog posts, links to social media channels and send me topics or guests you’d like to see on the show. If you’re interested in getting to know yourself better, there’s now a free type finder personality on the quite strong website.

00;55;35;24 – 00;56;03;23
David Hall
This free assessment will give you a brief report, including your four letter Myers-Briggs code. You can also purchase the full. If you’d like more details, I’ll add a link to the show notes. There’s so many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.

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