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Show Notes

Are you tired of hearing that in order to be successful, you have to constantly push yourself outside of your comfort zone? Are you an introvert who feels discouraged by society’s extreme focus on extroverted ideals? 

If so, this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast is for you. 

Join host David Hall as he sits down with guest Summer Turner, an expert in helping introverted women thrive in their comfort zones. In this episode, David and Summer challenge the notion of constantly seeking discomfort and advocate for finding strength in one’s comfort zone. 

They explore the concept of “getting out of your complacency zone” instead of just trying to get out of comfort zone, and why embracing your strengths and authenticity leads to success. So, if you’re ready to learn how to dance on the rim and live life on your own terms, this episode is a must-listen. 

Tune in to discover tips for small talk and public speaking, understand the importance of accommodating introverts in the workplace, and learn strategies to build confidence and leverage your strengths. 

Get ready to thrive in your comfort zone with David and Summer on The Quiet And Strong Podcast and Be Strong!

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Welcome back to another episode of The Quiet and Strong Podcast! I’m your host, David Hall, and today we have a very special guest joining us, the amazing Summer Turner. In today’s episode, we dive deep into the concept of stepping outside of our comfort zones in order to achieve success. But here’s the twist – Summer challenges the commonly held belief that going outside of our comfort zones means pushing ourselves to do things that scare us. As an introvert herself, Summer breaks down the biological differences between introverts and extroverts when it comes to excitement and fear, shedding light on why this idea can often leave introverts feeling discouraged. She introduces the idea of the “complacency zone” – a state of hiding that keeps us safe, but stagnant. Summer emphasizes the importance of understanding and embracing our comfort zones, as well as recognizing the specific needs and strengths of introverts in a society that often values immediate action and extroverted behavior. She shares insights on building confidence, creating introvert-friendly work environments, and the power of connections in business. Summer’s personal journey from being labeled as “wrong” or problematic for her introversion to becoming a successful speaker and teacher offers inspiration and encouragement to introverted women who are navigating their own paths. So get ready to gain valuable strategies, insights, and perspectives that will empower introverts to thrive in their own introvert-friendly way. Let’s jump right into Episode 132 of The Quiet and Strong Podcast with our incredible guest, Summer Turner!

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Summer Turner, owner of Business Breakthrough Training LLC, helps introverts through strategy coaching and by collaborating with HR and DEI folks to eradicate the unconscious bias against introverts in the workplace.

She has a degree in psychology, and her background includes adult learning theory, instructional design, and creativity training. And of course, she is an introvert.

Contact Summer:


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Books discussed in this episode:

Quiet by Susan Cain

*Reach out to Summer on LinkedIn to be notified about her upcoming ebook, “No Sweat Presentations: Introvert-Friendly Strategies to Rock the Stage”

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Contact the Host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:

David Hall

Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster
david [at]

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Timestamped Overview

[00:02:15] The author discusses feeling different as an introvert and finding solace and inspiration through Susan Cain’s book “Quiet.” They share their journey of overcoming fears and embracing their introverted nature and wanting to help others do the same.

[00:10:19] The writer’s career path evolved naturally through writing blog posts and reaching out to others. They found a passion for coaching introverted women transitioning from post corporate life. Their strategic mindset helps them assist others in achieving their goals in an introvert-friendly way.

[00:14:21] The text argues that leaving one’s comfort zone is important for success, but introverts may find it paralyzing. Instead, the focus should be on leaving the complacency zone to avoid staying stagnant.

[00:19:36] Introvert expert coaches help strategize goals within comfort zones, such as joining Toastmasters for public speaking.

[00:23:24] Toastmasters teaches effective public speaking by controlling nerves, aiming for a balanced amount of excitement.

[00:28:50] Realize weaknesses as strengths, leverage introverted traits in meetings, communicate needs to contribute effectively.

[00:31:10] DEI initiatives need to accommodate introverts for workplace success, with leaders taking responsibility and providing education and support. Introverts often struggle with open office plans and need a designated quiet space.

[00:36:25] Small talk is important for building connections and social bonds. It helps vet potential clients or partners. To engage in small talk, get out of your head and notice your surroundings. Talk about things like the venue, food, or music. Small talk releases oxytocin, the bonding hormone. It is useful for public speaking by greeting people before a presentation, making connections, and easing nerves.

[00:42:48] Having confidence is essential for moving forward. Start with something you have confidence in, such as a skill or higher power. Take small, cautious steps and build confidence as you go.

[00:47:43] This person provides coaching and collaboration services for introverted women in various professional settings. They are also working on an ebook about presentations for introverts.

[00:49:56] Thank you, David. Enjoyed it. Connect at, for blog, socials. Send show ideas. Free personality assessment and full report on website. Introvert strengths and needs. Be strong.

Key Takeaways

– Understanding the difference between the comfort zone and the complacency zone is crucial for personal growth and success.

– Introverts have unique strengths and preferences that should be recognized and accommodated in the workplace.

– Faking extroversion is not sustainable or fulfilling; living authentically is more important.

– Building confidence starts with small, cautious steps and taking action within one’s comfort zone.- Identifying and utilizing opposite traits can be beneficial in personal and professional life.

– Making connections and engaging in chitchat can lead to positive relationships and opportunities.

– The speaker’s journey from introversion to teaching and coaching serves as inspiration for others.

– The speaker offers services for introverted women and collaborates with DEI and HR specialists to eliminate bias between introverts and extroverts.

Podcast Transcript

Summer Turner [00:00:00]:

But what I realized is that when people are well meaning when they say that, that you have to leave your comfort zone, what they are really saying is you have to leave your complacency zone which is true for everybody So I put in the work of actually sitting down and defining comfort zone and complacency zone and I think you know my definitions are what we all would say yes that’s true and then we can move from there to do our strategizing and understanding and all of that. So for me, the comfort zone are the people, the places, the situations, and activities, and skill sets where you feel comfortable and competent.

David Hall [00:00:54]:

Hello, and welcome to episode 132 of the Quiet Strong Podcasts. especially for introverts. I’m your host, David Hall, and the creator of It’s a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts. Entravision is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we will air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, even review. would mean a lot to me. Tell a friend about the podcast. I’ll get the word out there. The introversion is a beautiful thing. Summer Turner, owner of Business Breakthrough Training LLC helps introverts through strategy coaching and by collaborating with HR, and on diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives to eradicate the unconscious bias against introverts in the workplace. She has a degree in psychology, and her background includes adult learning theory, instructional design, and creativity training. And, of course, she is an introvert. Alright. Welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast summer. Summer is so great to have you on today.

Summer Turner [00:01:59]:

Thank you for having me.

David Hall [00:02:02]:

Alright. We are gonna get into some great work that you do around introversion and coaching. But I always like to start with you. Like, tell us a little bit about your journey of discovering your introvert to now helping other introverts.

Summer Turner [00:02:15]:

Thank you. Just like probably every other introvert you’ve talked with, I thought there was something wrong with me. My teachers thought there was something wrong with me. My parents thought there was something wrong with me because I was introverted, and I was also highly sensitive. So for example, in the 1st grade, first day of 1st grade which was my first school experience, I was so overwhelmed by the number of kids and the activity and everybody doing something different and the lights and just everything that I started trembling all over and they had to put me in a room where an empty room and they called my parents. So you know, they just thought there was something wrong with me, but throughout my life I learned to cope And later in life I realized that coping is not the same as living. and so that’s when I started getting a little bit radical, but it it took it really took Susan Cain’s book quiet. for me to have a big breakthrough because I was doing I used to teach college and I was prepared for that because in the 8th grade I took an elective course in public speaking because it was the last elective offered and after the 1st day everybody went to the office and dropped the class except the school leaders and me because I was too scared to go to the office. So I actually was voted by the end of the semester or whatever it was. most improved speaker. And those skills I have, they’re in my skill set and they have served me very well. So I did find teaching. I taught at a college. I taught at the ESL School at the college, and then I was recruited to teach writing processes class refreshment, and so that was fine And then life stuff happened, and I ended up spending years sitting in my office by myself doing book editing and ghost writing. And then in 2012 that urged to teach started welling up inside of me They’ve been a lot of years since I’ve taught or really been out in front of people or done anything much except sit in my office and work and not talk to anybody. So so I do what I teach people how to do. I strategized how to move forward comfortably? How do I get from my office by myself to teaching something? somewhere. I didn’t know what I was being called to do but it was an inward call. It was very strong. So I thought well maybe I’ll start a seminar business in business writing. That sounds good. And I needed to get my teaching mojo back at that skill set active So I joined toastmasters and I joined improv and I very quickly got gotten up to back up to speed. So that’s what I did. And then I joined a very large chamber of commerce here and they have very large networking events and that was hell for me as an introvert. I didn’t know I was an introvert at that point. I just knew that I was dreading a bit. And so I’d go to these networking events, and I started noticing that while I am just feeling the life draining out of me and cannot even remember the name of my business, literally had to have my business card right up in my purse I could see it because I there was so much going on. I could not remember anything. But I noticed there were some people that as the evening more on, they were shining more and more and they were having a good time and one of them was like standing next to me bopping to the music and saying, I’ve been waiting for this all day. And I’m like, what? I’ve been dreading it all day, so that point my sister mentioned that, you know, you might be an introvert and there’s this book I’m gonna send you, and it was Susan Cain’s book. quiet, the power of introverts in a world that can’t stop talking. And I went, oh my gosh. That was a huge, huge, I was so impressed by it and was such a big for me and as I was looking around then at in these networking events, I saw other people who looked like me who were just draining, getting drained. They were hiding in the bathroom, whatever, and trying to leave early, or just what I would do sometimes give up and just go for the food. And so I thought this is this is big. This is what I want to do. This is what I want to teach. So that’s how that came about.

David Hall [00:07:25]:

Wow. Yes. So many people have been on this show, and so many people I’ve met and read about thought that something was wrong, you know. And You are not the first guest to mention Susan Kane. Her her her book is is really helped so many people, you know, in her famous TED talk, And I highly recommend, you know, her book quiet. What what’s the main message that that really resonated with you from her book?

Summer Turner [00:07:53]:

the big came from the fact that it’s biological these are biological differences. We’re not mal adapted. You know the the scale used to be from extraversion to neuroticism. So we were considered the neurotics that were mal adapted to the world the way it’s supposed to be. So that was that was huge and very empowering for me and so that was that was the big motivation. And I still have people that I work with who say I just thought there was something wrong with me. When they couldn’t the workplace, you know, in the open office plan, things like that. They they still think there’s something wrong with them. When they eventually quit, They don’t tell HR or anybody, you know, the reason they’re quitting is because there’s something wrong with me, they just give some generic reason so nothing was changing. Right. And that hurt that hurt my heart. That’s that’s something that’s they’re suffering unnecessarily, and I can’t stand that.

David Hall [00:08:52]:

Me neither, and that’s why we do what we do. Right? Summer, it’s we people have great strengths. and with those strengths comes needs. I love that you brought up that it’s biological. You know? It comes to us naturally. It’s not something to fix It’s something that if we understand it, you know, that we are deep thinkers or in some cases, you mentioned that you were also highly sensitive Some some people are really deep feelers and deep thinkers. If we can understand that, we have great gifts, but unfortunately, too many people don’t understand how to get the most out of their gifts and also with those gifts come certain needs too.

Summer Turner [00:09:31]:

Mhmm. Right.

David Hall [00:09:33]:

So, definitely, with the strengths, what would you say is a strength or sometimes I call them superpowers that you have as a introvert?

Summer Turner [00:09:42]:

I have learned to embrace my hypersensitivity because, you know, as an introvert, you know, we’re naturally deep deep listeners and and we tend to tune into nonverbal cues to kind of see what’s going on with somebody. I do this with groups too. I work well with groups. I kind of see the whole group dynamic and the changes in it, but I also am very intuitive. I get a lot of intuitive hits that are really valuable when it comes to to coaching especially.

David Hall [00:10:15]:

And how’d you get into coaching? When did you start that?

Summer Turner [00:10:19]:

Kinda happened naturally, maybe. I really don’t know. It’s it’s been it’s just been a process of, you know, people Mostly people reach out to me and I have I wrote a lot of blog posts that people liked and I would you know, I’d built my email list and things like that. And then I wasn’t gonna really do workplace training, I realized that I wanted to do that point 101 coaching. And I used to give seminars at my chamber of commerce which we were it was one of the benefits that we can do. And so and I would just invite people, you know, these were introverted women mostly and a lot of them were post corporate who were transitioning to becoming coaches and consultants themselves, and they were post corporate because they really couldn’t handle the corporate extrovert favored environment anymore. So when they started realizing it’s because they were introverts. And when when you’re you know, when you go into for yourself, everything’s on you. You can’t, like, hide in an office anymore and let somebody else do this talking. You know, you have to get out there and do something. And one of my big strengths according to the lift and strength finders is that I’m strategic. and the blurb they wrote to explain it was what I always called the worry gene. I mean, I had the worry gene space, like what if? What if? What if? What if? and mitigate all of those things, like plan A, plan B, plan C, you know, but that was they said, you’re always asking, what if, you know, coming up with strategy, That’s so I now I call it a gift. So I that’s what I help people do is from their own comfort zone strategize ways to accomplish whatever that goal is so that as an introvert an introvert brain friendly way So

David Hall [00:12:26]:

yeah. Yeah. I also have benefited from CliftonStrengths. And in my top 5 is analytical, which is really similar to strategic. And, you know, I don’t think that you or I would have those gifts if we weren’t an introvert. because it there there’s a lot of power in in being able to think deeply. You know, I’d naturally we naturally go into our heads more often than not. And, you know, we’re thinking through things. And what would the world be like if there wasn’t someone that’s thinking about what if, you know, what if this, what if that we need absolutely need that gift. Or in my case, you know, like you said, I always have a plan. And, you know, I have a backup plan and maybe even a backup plan to that. So I I’m usually pretty calm, and that’s why. know? And sometimes people think, why aren’t you worried about this? I’m like, don’t you know me? I I have a plan. You know? And if that doesn’t work out, I have another one. So — Yes. — because I’m always thinking. so Yes, it’s like when when doing presentations,

Summer Turner [00:13:30]:

I always have plan a, b, c, d, e, and f. And then when I get there, something will go wrong, but it’ll be something I could not have anticipated. Now if it was something I should have anticipated, I would be very mad at myself. But since I have control for all of those things, when something does go wrong, I just laugh and roll with it. like, well, I could have predicted that. And then I’m I’m relaxed and calm, so I can think on my feet how to solve it, you know, what to do about it, how to work around it, So it’s all about staying calm, which is kind of our home base with the parasympathetic nervous system. We need to stay in that place.

David Hall [00:14:08]:

Right. Right. You talk a lot about the comfort zone. Tell us about that. What does that mean to you to the comfort zone, especially as it relates to introverts or extroverts.

Summer Turner [00:14:21]:

Yeah. That that is my big theme now. because when I first started learning about all this and helping people, I would see all of these Facebook memes and LinkedIn memes about how you have to must go outside your comfort zone to be successful. Nothing happens inside your comfort zone. And there always be this like picture, something really scary, like somebody jumping from one cliff to another, and that was quite alarming to me. And and to a lot of introverts who just when they come to me they’re very discouraged and they would have coaches sometimes who told them the same thing. You know, the the the more it scares you, the more you need to do it. Well, the way we’re wired biologically, we need to stay in that calm place. scary what’s scary to us extroverts call excitement, extreme excitement, and their brains actually need that they need to do that. Okay? But for us, it’s paralyzing. So I started thinking about, you know, what I realized is that Yeah. In society, it’s still kind of that’s the right way. You you jump into you haven’t thought you jump into action. You you, you know, fall on your face. You it up. You figure out the obstacles along the way, but we’re more the thinkers and planners. So that’s you know, we would be like, I could have seen that person was gonna fall on their face. You know? So and I would have mitigated that, and and I wish I could have told him here’s what you do so that doesn’t happen. But We’re not like that. So but what I realized is that when people are well meaning when they say that, that you have to leave your comfort zone, What they are really saying is you have to leave your complacency zone which is true for everybody. So I put in the work of actually sitting down and defining comfort zone and complacency zone and I think you know my definitions are what we all would say yes that’s true and then we can move from there. to do our strategizing and understanding and all of that. So so for me the comfort zone are the the people, the places, the situations, and activities and skill sets where you feel comfortable and competent. That’s true for introverts and for extroverts. and the complacency zone is a state of hiding in order to maintain the status quo as a way of feeling safe instead of moving forward into the unknown. That is true. We to be successful, we need to leave that place. Everybody does.

David Hall [00:17:13]:

Yeah. I like how you make that distinction.

Summer Turner [00:17:16]:

I think it’s important. I think it’s really important. So So so I actually give my my clients a comfort zone map, so they can identify their own particular people, places, situations, activities, and skill sets where they feel comfortable and and competent. And the extroverts map but their comfort zone is gonna look very different. In fact, it’s probably gonna be the opposite things And and I also have my clients on the outside of that map is with the map is like a circle with circles inside. outside is they write all the things that they dread and hate and just really can’t do and every time I see one of those and every time I do one myself, those things are what’s inside the extroverts. comfort zone. Those are the things they enjoy doing and need to do. So we feel like, you know, that we’re having to do things the extrovert way because that’s the right way, because that’s how things the world is set up, especially the work world. But so I’m saying not really gonna work. You know, you can fake x direction, but you’re not gonna shine, you’re not gonna people are not gonna you because you’re not being authentic, and we’re hardwired to sort of sense something somebody’s not being something’s off somebody. They’re not being authentic. I don’t trust them. So so need to operate from inside our our comfort zone. And one thing that bugs me is that some people say just Suck it up, put on your big girl, a big boy extrovert pants, do the thing, and then recover from the trauma later. that kinda hurts my heart. So I would say like, okay, you can do that, but Can you do it every day? Can you sustain it? Do you feel good doing it? Is this how you want to live, or are you just coping. So it’s a coping thing, and as I’ve learned in my life, coping is not the same as living and life’s too short, so Yeah. We don’t wanna cope. Yeah.

David Hall [00:19:27]:

So — Or just cope, I guess, I should say. Just cope. Yeah. I definitely wanna thrive and have all the success and all that. Exactly. Exactly.

Summer Turner [00:19:36]:

So and this is where introvert expert coaches can help people to to kind of identify what those items are and then strategize how to get them. Whatever that goal is or that thing you’re being asked to do, strategize from things inside your comfort zone how to do it. Now on my map, I do have a dancing on the rim zone, and that’s where you have one foot out and one foot in. You’re not super comfortable with it or maybe you haven’t done it a long time, but you do have the skill set to do it, whatever that is. So you’re gonna strategize how to make that more comfortable, how to bring that more into inside your comfort zone. So for me it was the presentations, you know, to to get back out in the world and and do presentations when I hadn’t done it, like, since the 8th grade. But I knew I had the skills. I knew I had the skills. I knew how to I, you know, I knew I had so much about presentations that I knew how to do. And so for me I realized that if I’m gonna do this seminar business I need to get my teaching mojo back, get comfortable being up in front of people, and presenting, and all of that. So I thought about it and I realized that to bring that more into my comfort zone for me, I need to join toastmasters and join improv and I did. And the cool thing about Toastmasters is that you start as a guest. You don’t even have to speak. You start going as a guest, and then when you join pretty soon, everybody who joined joined there because they’re freaked out about speaking. So they’ve all been where you were. And after a while, once you I quickly got my mojo back and all of that, but they became central to my comfort zone. They were my safe people. So if I had to give a presentation or something that wasn’t one of the types of speeches you’re supposed to give in Toastmasters, they would meet with me at some other location so I could practice it, and then they would give me good feedback. So they were my safe people. So that was that way they and Toastmasters and and the teaching all came right back into my comfort zone. So that’s a way I’ve like, realizing when you’re dancing on the rim, you can do it. How can I do it more comfortably? That can work for you.

David Hall [00:22:15]:

Yeah. I love how you how you distinguish that, the comfort zone, the complacency zone. And, you know, I think that public speaking is a good example for me too. is I could it definitely I would have thought of it as being out of my comfort zone, you know, years ago. But what I really learned was what I needed as a introvert. My strengths as a introvert, you know, whether that that I need to prepare for my public speech that I need probably to take a break after. I’m probably not gonna fully work the crowd beforehand. and all this is is normal. So, you know, I could have stayed complacent and thought, well, this is scary to me, but instead, working in my comfort zone as you’re phrasing it with you know, it’s really learning what are my strengths as a introvert and what what do I need. And it’s it’s nice you know, I know some people might still get nervous with public speaking, but I just don’t. You know? I because I know that I’m passionate about the thing that I’m gonna be speaking about. I have some something to say, you know, I’ve done the preparation, and and it’s gonna be good.

Summer Turner [00:23:24]:

Now toastmasters teaches you what they call making your butterflies fly in formation, which I think is a good image. Yeah. And and if if you have I know I have done, like, when I was teaching ESL at this college, sometimes I would teach the same thing over and over, you know, year after year and I realized if I don’t have any butterflies at all, it’s just gonna be kinda meh, you know, so so I do value the few butterflies if it’s too too many it’s like okay, what is it that’s freaking me out? I’m going to strategize that away. I’m gonna make that not a problem somehow. And then as I tell people, you know, when you when it and here she is and you go into the center of the stage, you shouldn’t feel like you’re you’re bungee jumping or just jumping off a cliff. I used to feel ice the thought that would going to my mind was like, I just wish I’d never been born. I just wish I’d never been born. You know, that’s that’s really freak out to where I just have enough butterflies where I feel like instead of jumping off a cliff I’m just stepping from the curb down into the street that little bit of it’s go time. Here we go. This is it. And that that’s my go energy. That’s what actually helps me to do the performance and not just be blah.

David Hall [00:24:50]:

Yeah. And you brought up something else. So speaking of public speaking and you also mentioned Susan Cain. I watched a webinar at work with Susan Cain. It’s been a few years now. but it was very interesting because after the webinar, that topic came up, and someone was talking about it, And I’m pretty sure if I got to know her, she probably was a introvert. And immediately, she was getting all this advice, like, you know, to be a good public speaker, just do it. Just, you know, all the things that we’re talking about that’s more of the extrovert way. And just what you were saying is, often when we’re getting coaching, it’s probably gonna be more effective from someone that is like us like, you know, I know that I’m gonna learn a lot more from probably from introverts than extroverts. Or if if I’m getting coached by extrovert, they really need to under understand what I need as an introvert. I think that’s really key is because if an if an extrovert’s giving introvert device that doesn’t match, It could be not helpful, and it could even be harmful.

Summer Turner [00:25:53]:

It is harmful. I had one client who came to me She was kind of a basket case because she had a coat, she was an extroverted man, she was a sensitive female, and he had this marketing get his own like road map, his own steps. And when he mentioned something that you have to do this certain thing she was like I can’t do that. I just can’t do it. And she she wasn’t really thinking in terms of she’s an introvert, she just knew she could not do that, and he started shaming her. He started shaming her and said, well, you because it was his thing. You know, he was all about his steps, his magical steps. You know? And when you’re just you know, she was being a difficult client for him from his point of view. If you’re not gonna do the step, then forget it. You just can’t be you you can’t be successful. You have to do this. And so then she a friend of hers that was my client mentioned me. And so she reached out to me and says, okay. I get it. He was an extrovert. Had his own thing, and he didn’t know about introverts and extroverts and couldn’t accommodate for those differences. But he was shaming for to her. so I had to kinda undo all of that.

David Hall [00:27:07]:

Yeah. Yeah. I I hate to hear stories like that because we need to understand where our gifts are and be proud Just a little bit ago, you mentioned, you know, that we shouldn’t be faking it. What do you think about advice when people just say fake it till you make it?

Summer Turner [00:27:21]:

Yeah. You can do that. But, again, you’re not gonna make it really that way. At some point, you do have to find something real inside yourself and come from that. But If if it’s like it’s like my dancing on the rim, that’s very different than faking it till you make it. It’s that you are uncomfortable doing it. You know? It’s not it’s not right inside your comfort zone, but there’s something you have that allows you to do it. You tap into that. You strategize and do whatever that is until this is more comfortable for you in years. So but just faking it, begin, you’re not gonna shine, so you’re not gonna the extrovert who does that same thing is gonna be the one getting the promotion or getting the business, getting the clients, and and you’re not living an authentic life. Is that how you wanna live? It’s just it basically doesn’t work. It’s it’s just like when people say things like pretend your audience is naked, that’s a very hostile act. When that, you know, that energy’s going out, it’s going to come right back at you. It’s just like you can do that, but it’s not gonna work. It’s not helpful advice. No.

David Hall [00:28:44]:

How do you help your clients find what it their authentic selves?

Summer Turner [00:28:50]:

Well, I think once they realized that their traits that they thought were weaknesses, are really their strengths. Then they start to operate from from those as as strengths. So, you know, people say, Oh, I just can’t seem to get my thoughts together in in meetings because this exhibits run-in their mouth and there’s too many people here and their energies are coming at me and the lights are too bright. And So you you you start to think that I I can’t contribute in meetings. I’m not a valuable employee, but once you realize your biology and that you need to when all that sensory data is coming at you, you can’t think normal, then you can strategize how to use see it as a strength that my I am a deep thinker and my thoughts are valuable to this organization. While that extrovert is running their mouth with ideas that are just come, you know, they’re thinking of it as they’re saying it, which is normal for them. I’m seeing all the ways that won’t work or needs to be tweaked but by the time I get my thoughts together, they’ve moved on to another topic, but my thoughts are important and this this initiative, this idea isn’t gonna work as it is, they need to hear my thoughts. You can start working ahead of time by letting your leader, your manager know that, you know, I I am an introvert, I need to any quiet in order to get my thoughts together. So could I please have the agenda the day before so that I can contribute more in the meetings? So you you prepare. so you start to see that you do have strengths, you know, just take whatever you think is a weakness which would be a strength maybe for an extrovert, And what’s the opposite? Whatever that opposite is, that’s your strength. And then strategize how to make that work. in your life or your your workplace or wherever.

David Hall [00:31:01]:

So what is what’s your advice as far as being heard in meetings as a deep thinker, as a introvert.

Summer Turner [00:31:10]:

Again, if you don’t know what the topic is and it just goes, blam, here it is, then, yeah, you’re not gonna you’re not gonna that’s not your place. That’s the extrovert’s place. And so this is what I like about the DEI initiatives now, diversity equity and inclusion because people are a little more sensitive now to other needs, other people’s needs and everybody’s wired differently I don’t think they’re yet addressing the introvert extrovert thing enough because it’s huge. I mean, we’re pretty much 5050 on, you know, percent one side or the other of the spectrum, so it does need to be an introvert to do need to be accommodated, and that’s really the leader’s responsibility to be a good leader. They need to bring in, you know, an expert on introversion and can help, you know, help the workplace, help the teams see see their differences as strengths, kind of a thing. But meanwhile you can you can talk to your manager and you can also start educating the people around you. Like I like to say if somebody says, oh, you know, we need to do this, I need you to do this, You can say, well, I’m brain wired as an introvert and so to do that, I need such and such. And there’s, that’s a conversation starter. Get some start to think. Oh, what does that mean? Brainwired as an introvert. you know, what what’s all involved in that? And what am I? You know? And if you can have a good conversation about it. But, really, I think it needs to be more you know, it’s a training level and more, like, workplace wide organization. wide for introverts to thrive in those situations. And leaders you know, leaders better listen to the introverts, I have had so many clients who transition from corporate tell me, that number one problem in the workplace is the open office plan. Some of these people very conscientious loyal employees would take work home because they couldn’t concentrate at work. then they get burned out because they’re always in work mode. And then they quit. They just have to quit. They just can’t do it, and they but they think there’s something, you know, wrong with them. So it’s really, you know, the the leaders leadership in organizations need to take this on board. and and introverts need a door. They need a door with a sign saying do not disturb. if they want to get the best out of their introverts.

David Hall [00:33:56]:

So Yeah. I I think every introvert should have a door and and a do not disturb sign for sometimes. You know? We we all need to you know, we need our our our space to think and to plan to focus, you know, or to be strategic as we both are. But, you know, we need time to collaborate too, and there needs to be a good balance there.

Summer Turner [00:34:16]:

yeah, that’s kind of a myth that we’re we’re antisocial and we’re not. We’re humans. The humans need social connections. but not when we’re supposed to be working and thinking and, you know, doing doing our work, doing our best work.

David Hall [00:34:31]:

You know, we can’t define ourselves like that. Yeah. Like, when we’re talking about being strategic or being analytical, that doesn’t happen in a noisy environment. You know? You need some space And then, you know, we we we can thrive in in the communication in one on one small group or even large group. if we’re if we’re prepared, like, you know, insisting on an agenda like you said or realizing, you know what? I need to think and then speak and just being ready for that conversation and and engaging on in that conversation early on. So, you know, we’re not, you know, it hasn’t moved on by the time we were ready to say something.

Summer Turner [00:35:10]:

And I think that’s where understanding the biology can really help too because when we’re introverts have a very long complicated blood pathway to the brain and it’s going to these areas of deep thinking, making connections between things, long term memory, you know all these inner processes and It’s not easy to go there when you have all this stuff from the outer world in your face. you know, noises, music, people talking, and you can’t and you can’t pay attention to both at the same time. So that’s why we really need that that quiet to sort of go in there and go through that thinking process.

David Hall [00:35:56]:

Yeah. And we need some space to be able to do that. Yeah. And part of this, you know, the fact that we think and then speak, you know, small talk can be a problem. In fact, we joked a little bit about it when we before we hit record that you said you you were making small talk, and it it’s kinda funny because, you know, I definitely wasn’t as good at it as I am now, and it’s been it it has been a struggle. How do people get more comfortable with small talk? And why do we need to even do small talk?

Summer Turner [00:36:25]:

Yeah. We need to do it at times because we need you know, if you’re in business or you’re wanting to you know, if you’re on a team or you’re wanting to move your organization, you have to make connections with people. And so it it is important and I used to hate it and dread it and especially when I go to these big chamber networking things, and I I came to appreciate it because I realized that it is a way to vet people. Like, is this a good client possibility or referral partner? Is this somebody I even want to stand in front of for any length of time? You know? So so having that chit chat is important and also just creating the social bonds, you know, acquaintances, good, good solid, acquaintances you care about and who care about you is very important. So that chitchatting, that small talk is really good for creating those social bonds. So I started to value it and I what I realized the problem with our interest reason we hate it and resist this because we wanna stay in that deep place in her mind that I was just mentioning. And you’re asking us to pull out and start noticing the world and the senses and the sights and the sounds and our own bodies and we don’t wanna go there, but you have to do that to make these initial connections with people. So So my biggest tip is to just, for this occasion, get out of your head and into your body. Really feel embodied in the present moment. Look around and just notice the decor you know, if you’re at the event, notice the the different people, how many men, how many women, the food, the music, listen to the music, and just get get outside of your your that deep place in your mind. And then those are topics you can talk about when you meet some buddy. Say something about, you know, the food if you’re standing in the food line and, you know, or something that you noticed about the venue, you know, or the music, and just have that little conversation. And you’ll notice that if they’re a pleasant person and they’re responding that you will actually get oxytocin flowing in your brain. That is the bonding hormone, also known as the love hormone. That is a good feeling. so you want to, so you can enjoy having this chit chat. when you get that going, you’re you’re caring about them in the conversation. They’re nice a nice person, and they seem to be caring about you and asking you good questions. And And then either, you know, you want to go deeper with this person or not, but it was really nice chatting with you and then go on, you know, to the to the next person, but we do we do need to build these relationships and and the small talk is a great way to do it. I also advise in presentations you you don’t need to do this apparently, but I advise if you’re scared of public speaking before an audience with a capital a, you go down to the doorway before You’ve already prepared, you’ve been there an hour before everything’s set up, everything’s tested, so far everything’s working, and you go down to the doorway and greet people at the door. And I first resisted this because it was it’s very, you know, it was uncomfortable dancing on my rim for the comfort zone. but I thought, well, I know how to stick out my hand and say hi. I’m summer. You know? So that was a skill that I focused on doing. Just stick out my hand and say hi, I’m Summer Turner. And people coming in then you you you kind of have that small talk chitchat something you notice about them or and and I, again, we make connections between things. It’s natural. and so I would notice like some chit chat talk with somebody else came up with some a hobby or something you know, I made my jewelry, you know, whatever, then another person coming in says something about they have a jewelry store, I hooked them up right then and there. I said, oh you want to talk to so and so. You know, you start making these connections and so they feel more comfortable and welcomed. And once you get going and it’s go time and you step off curve into the street and it’s go time, you’re not speaking in front of an audience with a capital a. You’re speaking in front of people that you have already met and bonded with. Got a little of that oxytocin love hormone going on.

David Hall [00:41:27]:

Yeah. No. That’s a great strategy. That’s a great and I have used that one before. That is a good strategy to act ahead of time. And I think you hit on some really important things because we’ve already said, you know, there’s a myth that we don’t like people. So, of course, that’s a myth. We all need connection. But we do prefer the deep conversations and we do live in our heads. And so it’s not that we don’t like people, but we do sometimes have to make an effort to get outside of our head sometimes and have those conversations that we’ll connect so that we can have the deeper conversations sometimes. It’s not all we you’re not always gonna have deep conversations. But I think that that’s a really important distinction that a lot of people don’t understand. It’s not that we don’t like people, but we do gravitate to our inner world, which, you know, we have a lot of great ideas in there. We like to talk about deep things. but sometimes that’s hard to connect if we stay there and don’t don’t try to make these connections. Like you said, get out of our heads sometimes.

Summer Turner [00:42:29]:


David Hall [00:42:30]:

Yep. So I always say if they need it. So how do you help to introvert gain confidence if they need it? because I don’t I definitely don’t wanna promote that myth that all introverts lack confidence because I I know some very confident introverts. But what if they don’t have confidence? How can you help them, Dave? If if you have to do something

Summer Turner [00:42:48]:

that’s new for you and you don’t have the usually you don’t have the confidence because you still are thinking there’s something wrong with you that your weaknesses quote weaknesses, are weaknesses instead of your strengths, you haven’t really gone through that process. So so what I like to say is that know, if if you feel a mission to do something and you’re like, I just don’t have it in me, you Dude, you are probably carrying around a lot of negative beliefs about yourself, and that takes time to process, but and you don’t have time. Okay? If you don’t have time, you gotta get the confidence because you gotta move forward. And really confidence builds when you take action, when you move forward. So how do you take that first action when you don’t have any confidence. I claim that you do have confidence in something there is something right now that you do have confidence in. It could be your mission. It feels like God given. and you care about it, it could be a skill set, a particular skill set that you have under your belt where you do feel confident. Start there. what could be your higher power that you do have confidence and faith in? Start there! and then you can strategize a way of taking a very comfortable step. I I one of my themes is the tortoise and the hare, you know, Aesop’s fable, and the experts are the hair. They just jump into things and jump over obstacles and run around, you know, and just go when they get the idea. And the tortoises are the the cautious ones. They move forward too, and in the fave, well, they run the won the race. Not not that there’s a race. But And they they take a step, and then they look around. How did that go? What do I need to tweak? What’s my next step? take the next step. So you can adopt the tortoise approach and take small, cautious, well thought out, comfortable steps anchoring yourself in whatever that thing is that you do have confidence in in this moment. And like I said confidence in builds on itself. Once you do something and it works out, then you have more confidence and you sort of, you know, go from there, and you get that momentum.

David Hall [00:45:11]:

Yeah. And in in the story, of course, the tortoise wins the race. So Yeah. And I I like that one. It’s it’s we we do have some gifts. and they’re gonna look different from the other person’s gifts, but they are they are our gifts.

Summer Turner [00:45:26]:

Right. And don’t think you have to jump into things the way an extrovert does and live out loud about it. That’s that’s natural for them, but you do what’s natural for you.

David Hall [00:45:36]:

We’ve talked a little bit about you know, making time for our gifts. What’s your advice on that? Like, what is it that we need to use our gifts and our creativity as introverts? How do we make a space for that. Well, you have to claim it.

Summer Turner [00:45:51]:

It is crucial though because your best gift is the thinking whether it’s keeping your organization from tanking because everybody’s following some, you know, hair hair rain expert idea that isn’t well formed, but so you do need to, you know, claim that space and honor. It’s part of honoring yourself. You know, if you honor yourself, you are going to find a way to do your day and your life that is balanced and workable for you and realize that that is crucial for you. You can’t be on go mode all the time

David Hall [00:46:35]:

that you’re not wired for that. Yeah. I love that. Build your life in a way that uses your strengths and also honors your needs. That’s perfect.

Summer Turner [00:46:46]:

Yes, I would like to see the workplace accommodate, introverts.

David Hall [00:46:52]:

Yeah. Likewise. We’re we’re gonna keep working towards that. Yeah. Summer, this time has gone by really fast. We’ve talked about a lot of great things. there anything else that you wanna talk about that we haven’t yet? You have drained my brain. Okay. I know we’ll probably both take a break after.

Summer Turner [00:47:08]:

Yeah. I I do, you know, the kind of the key takeaway for me for people is that there, you know, there is there’s nothing wrong with you. And so instead of trying to embrace the extrovert ideal, be radical, my favorite word for introverts, radical, be radical about living and working in ways that honor your introvert nature.

David Hall [00:47:32]:

Yeah. Well said. I like that. be radical. Okay. Well, Summer, again, we’ve talked about a lot of great things. If people wanna know more about you, where can they connect with you?

Summer Turner [00:47:43]:

Three ways really. For like introverted women who are like solopreneurs or women in corporate or leaders, the workplace. I work 1 to 1 virtually with them and they can connect with me on my website success for introverted, and there’s a coaching tab they can click on to book a conversation with me. And I also collaborate with DEI and HR specialists, and I can provide train the trainer help to help eliminate that unconscious bias between introverts and extroverts which is so crucial for for teams especially and people can reach me there through my other website, where they can schedule a consultation and we can explore how we might collaborate. And please connect with me on LinkedIn. I’m Summer Turner 1, Roman numeral 1, and I mentioned to David earlier that I am working on an ebook on kind of no sweat presentations for people who are, a lot of introverts are great presenters because they can prepare and, you know, they don’t have to do small talk and all that, but but a lot of them aren’t and even some non introverts are freaked out about doing public presentations. So so, you know, if you want to be notified about this when I’m done with it, you can message me on LinkedIn and just give me your email. address, and I’ll send it to you, and that might help me actually get it done.

David Hall [00:49:21]:

Alright. Yes. I will put all of that in the show notes. So, yeah, let us know when your book is ready. It’s like it’s gonna be great and very helpful.

Summer Turner [00:49:28]:

It’s gonna be an upside down book where I’d go right, start with a meat. Because if you’re reading it, you you’re you’re freaked out and you’re needing it, like, for next week. Right? So I’m gonna I’m planning to start with that and then the biology and then my story and whatever. So it’s gonna be an side down book. I kind of I love just in time training and this is a just in time book.

David Hall [00:49:49]:

Yeah. That sounds great. so I’m looking forward to it. Anyway, thanks again, Summer. It’s been a wonderful conversation.

David Hall [00:49:56]:

Thank you, David. I enjoyed it. Thank you so much for joining me today. I look forward to further connecting with you. Reach out at david at or check out the website. which includes blog posts and links to social media channels. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. If you’re interested in getting to know yourself better, there’s now a free type finder personality assessment on the quiet and strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report, including the 4 letter Myers Briggs code. And you can also have the option of purchasing the full report if you’d like to learn more. I’ll add a link to the show notes. So many great things about being an introvert, and we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths. and needs and be strong.

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