A guide to developing quiet confidence for introverted leaders.

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Show Notes

Do you ever feel like your introverted nature holds you back from being the confident and impactful leader you aspire to be? 

Today, join host David Hall as he sits down with empowerment coach Debra Bell-Campbell to explore the quiet confidence of introverted leaders. In this episode, Debra shares her personal journey of embracing her introversion and finding the strength to lead with confidence. 

Listeners will discover how to leverage their introverted strengths in leadership roles, build confidence through small wins, and prioritize self-care and introspection. Whether you’re an introverted leader who wants to be more confident or just looking to better understand introverted strengths, this conversation is filled with insights and practical tips. 

Tune in to unleash your quiet confidence, and be strong.

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Debra Bell-Campbell is the Owner and Lead Consultant of Inspired Visions Consulting Group, LLC, and co-owner of 2Paths1Leader, LLC. Inspired Visions Consulting provides customized Leadership Training, Mental Health Training, and Strategic Planning consultation to private and government agencies through workshops, seminars, and one-on-one consultations.

As one of the most sought-after introverted women leadership experts, Debra is an MBTI Certified Practitioner, Leadership and Master Life Coach, National Certified Counselor, Wellness Strategist, 6x best-selling author, and International Speaker.

She is the Leadership Expert who empowers introverted career women to leverage their introversion and elevate by incorporating five key pillars: authenticity, confidence, visibility, networking, and goal setting. Debra specializes in cultivating essential strategies and enhancing skills development to empower frontline leaders to move into mid-level leadership positions.

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Connect with Debra

Website: DebraBell-Campbell.com

Nspired Ntroverted Nugget™ Newsletter on LinkedIn

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– – –

Contact the Host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:

David Hall

Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster

quietandstrong.com
Gobio.link/quietandstrong
david [at] quietandstrong.com

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Timestamped Overview

00:00 Deborah Bell Campbell—introverted leadership expert, author, and consultant—empowers introverted women’s career development.

06:27 The speaker began embracing their identity and self-expression after their parents’ deaths.

08:36 Certified CPR instructor performs CPR on family member.

11:20 Exploring identity and interests through various disciplines like sociology, psychology, and counseling.

16:44 Detail-oriented approach to reviewing and questioning for thorough understanding.

18:34 Embracing self-care through walking for reflection and introspection.

23:10 Missed drive time, now walks from office to home to relax, think, and transition to family time.

27:03 Leadership development through diverse certifications for team’s individual strengths.

29:55 Leading with empathy, casting vision, and inclusivity are key leadership principles for Dynamic 5’s leader.

34:23 The meeting will be short and open for discussion and questions.

37:49 Inclusion should consider introversion and diverse leadership styles.

38:55 Inclusion is important for decision-making and belonging.

42:24 Practice speech by writing, recording, listening for flow.

45:48 Thanks for joining. Connect at david@quietandstrong.com, visit website for blog, social media, and free personality assessment. Share show topics/guest ideas. Embrace introversion.

Podcast Transcript

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:00:00]:
So I think if you’re introvert and you lack confidence and it’s something that you really want to build, I think you wanna create opportunities for small wins. 1st, you have to start. But do one thing at a time. Just one thing. Practice that. Focus on that. And then embrace your strengths with it. Because I know as an introverted leader, I can’t ever say that I hated public speaking.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:00:29]:
It’s just I didn’t do it. But as an integrated leader, you have to be able to speak in public. You have to be a public speaker, but you do have to be able to speak in public.

David Hall [00:00:49]:
Hello, and welcome to episode 156 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I’m your host, David Hall. I’m the creator of quietiststrong.com. It’s a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, while they’re each episode on a Monday, be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Leave a review. That would mean a lot to me.

David Hall [00:01:15]:
Tell a friend about the podcast. Help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Deborah Bell Campbell is the owner and lead consultant of Inspired Visions Consulting Group LLC and co owner of Two Pass One Leader LLC. Inspired Visions Consulting provides customized leadership training, mental health training, A strategic planning consultation to private and government agencies through workshops, seminars, and 1 on 1 consultations. As one of the most sought after introverted women leadership experts, Deborah is a MBTI certified practitioner, Leadership and Master Life Coach, National Certified Counselor, Wellness Strategist, 6 time best selling author, An international speaker. She is the leadership expert who empowers introverted career women to leverage their introversion And elevate by incorporating 5 key pillars, authenticity, confidence, visibility, networking, and goal setting. Deborah specializes in cultivating essential strategies and enhancing skills development to empower frontline leaders to move into mid level leadership positions. Alright.

David Hall [00:02:29]:
Well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Deborah. Deborah, it’s so great to have you on today.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:02:34]:
Thank you, David. I’m glad to be here.

David Hall [00:02:37]:
You do some great work around introversion, especially inspiring introverted women leaders. We’re gonna talk about all that. But first, let’s hear a little bit more about your journey. You know, tell us your story and how you Went from being an introvert to now helping other introverts.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:02:54]:
Okay. Absolutely. So as you said, I am Deborah Bell Campbell. And just to to just kinda let everybody know who I am. So I’m a daughter. I’m a mother. I’m a sister. I’m a partner, And I’m a boss, and I’m an introverted leader.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:03:12]:
And so what I do is I empower introverted women in leadership to leverage that introversion and elevate. And we do that by helping them command their confidence, accentuate their authenticity, vocalize their visibility, and nurture their networks. So those 4 pillars really just kinda help people, along the way, especially if you’re seeking because I’m a mid level leader. So if you’re seeking promotion, if you’re seeking, elevation. That’s what I do. I help women leaders get where they wanna go in terms of, promotional opportunities and just elevation. So I am number 8 of 12. Since all from all from the same extraordinary mom and dad.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:04:05]:
God rest their souls. So you can imagine that growing up, I kinda got lost. Lost in the sauce, as they say, being number 8. And

David Hall [00:04:16]:
so 3 of 9, so I can kinda relate. We didn’t have 12, but 3 of 9. So I I understand. Yeah.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:04:21]:
So you understand. Absolutely. So just kinda standing out or trying to stand out, you know, number 8 is in the middle. I’m not the oldest. I’m not the youngest. Any of that good stuff. So I need to figure out me. Right? And so that became I became, like, the the nerdy smart one, pretty much.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:04:42]:
Didn’t get into a whole lot of trouble or anything like that. And so, college was wonderful. Finished college, it was wonderful. My first job really is when I started noticing I did really, really well as a licensed therapist, And I I did counseling for about for about 6 years. Enjoyed it immensely. But it was a lot of 1 on 1 interaction where I excelled at because, apparently, I didn’t know that my my core was introversion. I just know that I’ve never been the chitchat kind of person. Like, if you say, I I wanna call and chat with you a bit, That’s almost a guarantee that we are not going to have a conversation.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:05:25]:
Just the word chit chat.

David Hall [00:05:27]:
Yes.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:05:27]:
Yeah. You kinda You kinda it kinda shut me down a bit. Oh, no. We’re not gonna chitchat. But if you said we’re gonna have a meeting, I can do meetings. Or, you know, but chit chats and hang out, no. So I started to I started to recognize that. I was like, oh, okay.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:05:43]:
Yeah. I just don’t want I’m not doing that. I don’t wanna do that. Right? But I started to see that things were a little bit differently. The way I look at things were differently. The way I interpret it. Just conversation was a little bit differently. So I spent some time after being a therapist, doing something different.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:06:03]:
And I was like, okay. Let me do something different. And that’s when I just kinda learned, okay. I gotta communicate. Because I thought I was pretty clear, but apparently, I wasn’t because the person I’m speaking with is coming back. So I embarked upon this journey of, Okay. So let’s let’s recognize what these differences are like. Because I’m we’re communicating differently, and I don’t think we’re understanding each other.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:06:27]:
So why is that? Right? I would say in the last probably the last 10 years is when I started. But after my father’s death is really, is really when I started to to blossom in terms of embracing exactly who I am. And I’ll say the way my father passed, how that happened my my mom had passed away December 2014. In. We had some time to just kinda grieve her loss because she was in the hospital for a while. And then my dad just We just said he just died. Like, he had a heart attack, of course, but it was 8 months after her. And we knew that he wasn’t, that there was some depression there.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:07:17]:
He just was a little bit different, but he wasn’t sick. Right. So it’s it’s a little bit it was definitely a little bit strange. And even more strange, my I usually take my son down to, you know, at the time, I would take him down to Alabama because we live in in Florida. Take him down to Alabama for the summer. He spend the summer with, you know, everybody. And so that particular summer, I was the last daughter. I was the last child that he had not seen that summer.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:07:48]:
Right? And so I was it. I got there that Thursday. I ran into his room to say hi and, you know, all that good stuff. And he was laying on the bed with his face facing the wall. Now he never did he said, hi, but he never turned to face me. And I thought, wow, that’s That’s pretty odd. Right? But I kept talking. I was excited to see him.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:08:11]:
I was excited to see everybody else as well. I talked a little bit more and then I left. And that Friday morning, I’m laying across the bed. I hear all of the screaming at the front of the house, just yelling. I mean, everybody was there. A lot of, my nieces and nephews. There was a lot of people in the house. And so I ran into the front of the room, and I Saw him slumped over in his favorite rocking chair.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:08:36]:
And, oh my goodness, immediately, because, you know, I’m certified CPR instructor. And so I’m I’m immediately just kinda taking charge. Get the kids out of you know, get the kids Across the street, somebody called 911, got my nephews to get my dad onto the floor, and that’s where I performed CPR, on him until until rescue arrives. And being certified in CPR, of course, I knew I knew when he was out when he was gone. By the time they got there, he was already gone. But I continue to do because I know that’s what you have to, continue to do, the 30 compressions, the 2 breaths. And so just in that In that moment, in that process, I just started to think about all you know how you think about all the things that you didn’t do or you didn’t get a chance to say? Just like, It’s so final. Like, this is it.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:09:32]:
There there were no more opportunities. And I just thought about all those times where I could’ve spoke up, all those things that I could have shown up, places I could have shown up at home with with family, just things. Right? And I just decided I was like, you know what? I’m okay. Just the way I am. I became more visible. I began to just release a lot of that self doubt about who I was and who I was expected to be. And I would say from that moment on, I started to build and embrace more and more of who I was and really just tried to figure out more and more, hence the MBTI. Just learning more about that preference assessment, the personality assessment, looking at some of the others and just kind of finding my fit.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:10:23]:
And all of it just started to make sense. I was like, oh, well, this I do this, this, this. And once I did the assessment, I was like, wow. It’s pretty spot on for me. So I took that information and just really just started to look at people a little bit differently. And not and this is not just kind of, not to say, oh, you are this or you are that. But just to say I understand. I see these characteristics here.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:10:55]:
I see these characteristics there. And just to explore more. 1 on 1, of course. So that’s kinda how I got to where I’m at.

David Hall [00:11:04]:
Thank you for sharing your story. And I guess that’s part of the next question is, So was the MBTI, the Myers Briggs, was that a turning point for you? Is that how you came up with the word introversion, or how did you come up with, Yes. I’m an introvert.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:11:20]:
I wanna say that probably you know, I never really thought about it. I just said I was you know, we all are different, really. But I just always called it different. It was good to see to put the words to it based off of, characteristics, I would say, yeah. That just kinda got me started. I am a I am one of those I won’t say I’m a bookworm, but I do like to dabble with different things. So I’ve I’ve seen it somewhere before because, you know, sociology, psychology as majors, master’s in counseling psychology. So I’ve seen all of that.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:12:00]:
But when you’re in school, You know, you’re doing just enough to do what you need to do to get by until you get that 1st job and realize that none of that stuff matters. Now I gotta do the real life stuff.

David Hall [00:12:11]:
Right? Yeah.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:12:12]:
I was like, oh, yeah. They didn’t teach me any of this. And, yeah, they did. I just I didn’t comprehend it that way when I was in school. But yeah. I I went back. It started to ring a bell. I was like, well, let me look more into it.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:12:26]:
Like, now I’m intentional. Now I’m focused. And it just kinda the Myers Briggs just kinda put the it put the name to the terms, and it just seemed like, okay. I resonate with this. I’ll resonate with that.

David Hall [00:12:40]:
Yeah. What’s your Myers Briggs type?

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:12:42]:
I bet you can guess. Oh, ISTJ.

David Hall [00:12:48]:
Okay. Okay. Yeah. I’m a INTJ. So sim similar similar. Did you say ISTJ?

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:12:55]:
I s t j. Now I can tell you that there’s all there’s been, my t and my f was always a little bit it’s a little bit closer. My preference is more on the thinking side even though I’m a filler, but I’m not a touchy filler.

David Hall [00:13:12]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:13:14]:
So I I lean more. My preference is more toward the thinking. Like, it It has to make sense to me, David. Like, when people ask the question, do you eat rice pudding? I said, there’s no reason for rice to be in a pudding. So that didn’t make sense to me. When we think about I always talk about things have to it has to be rational, and it has to make sense. And rice pudding don’t make sense to me at all. So I’m more of the I’m more on the thinking side.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:13:42]:
I and some people, you’re thinking too hard about that, Deborah. I was like, no. Not really. I don’t eat it. I’m not gonna eat it because it doesn’t make sense.

David Hall [00:13:51]:
Yeah. I get accused of thinking too much too. I’m definitely, I’m not in the middle on that particular one. But, you know, Myers Briggs was really instrumental for me because like a lot of my guests Come on and say something like, I thought something was wrong. That was me too. I thought something was wrong. I got certified in the Myers Briggs. And there’s a longer story behind it besides that.

David Hall [00:14:12]:
And that and some other things I did, it’s like, oh, these are natural gifts for me. They’re not gonna change, but I sure can embrace them. And so the Myers Briggs was something. And, you know, if the people that are listening aren’t familiar, we do have some other episodes Going more deeply into it. But also one thing I really like about it, it’s not just about introversion, extroversion, because all introverts and extroverts aren’t the same. You know, we have different gifts, like you may be more of a thinker, you may be more of a feeler, you may be more big picture details. There’s all kinds of things like that. And so I I thought it was really helpful.

David Hall [00:14:46]:
But I think you were also saying just a bit ago, it’s not like, okay, now you’re this. It’s like, no. It’s it’s A tool to really help you see some of the things about yourself, but we’re so nuanced as people. We you know, none of us are exactly the same.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:14:59]:
Absolutely. And it’s it’s more about, not boxing people in. Like, sometimes when people So when I say things like, okay. I’m a ISTJ. Okay. That’s a type. It’s a preference. I said, but it’s not a it’s not a box in.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:15:15]:
I’m not a hard this or a hard that. You know what I mean?

David Hall [00:15:19]:
Right. Right.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:15:20]:
Yeah. So I can be I can be talkative and outgoing. It’s just different. It’s just different than it is for someone who may be extroverted.

David Hall [00:15:30]:
Right. But it gives you some tools to think about. Oh, okay. I do need that, or that is my strength. I I say in my last episode, it was it was like So many people are just after the label, you know, introvert, extrovert, or some people say ambrovert. I’m more like, you know what? What’s behind the label? You know, that’s what’s really important. You know?

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:15:47]:
Yes. I completely agree.

David Hall [00:15:50]:
So what would you say is a strength or two because you’re an introvert?

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:15:54]:
I have this attention to detail. Now, of course, sometime to my own detriment.

David Hall [00:16:02]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:16:03]:
And I and I and I’ll be fully transparent. Like, just preparing for our interview here, Just the questions and I know it’s unscripted, but all at the same time, I gotta go through each of those questions. I gotta go through them. I gotta think about it. And then I had to just kinda decide how much of detail do I really need to give with that. But it’s those things though. It’s those qualities when you think about being a leader, paying attention to the details. Because sometimes that’s what happens in leadership, period, is that people feel as if the leader doesn’t see me, or they don’t understand us, so to speak, or or the the little people, so to speak.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:16:44]:
Because it could be that one detail, those little things. And so I’ve had friends and colleagues that say, okay, Deborah. Can you review this? Okay. If you don’t mind, can you look at this? And And so I’ll review it, but I do review it with that sense of detail, being real, real detail oriented. And then ask the questions. Like, by this, did you mean blah blah blah? By this, where are we talking about this and that? So I think that’s a really, really good quality, because sometimes people overlook this you know how they say don’t sweat the small stuff? We sweat the I sweat the small stuff. I find the small stuff, you know, in a sense. And so just kinda bring it Bring it out so that people can so we can at least have a conversation about it.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:17:32]:
Doesn’t mean that it’s gonna go my way or it’s gonna be added or or not add. It just mean let’s have a conversation about it because I don’t want us to overlook this particular fact.

David Hall [00:17:42]:
Yeah. And somebody’s gotta sweat the small stuff. You know? Scotty. And and I do, but you might more than me, and that might be just a really good. Someone might be looking more at the big picture and the details, and both are so important. You know? You gotta have both. And so there can be some great partnerships there. Introverts or extroverts can do details, but with your introversion, you can really focus like you’re saying.

David Hall [00:18:05]:
But in order to use that gift, you have some needs. Right?

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:18:09]:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I am and I know I know we use self care. Sometimes we loo use it a little loosely in, you know, 2020 after COVID. We everybody wants the self care. Well, I think of self care as an introverted person. I’m talking about doing the inner work as much as doing the outer stuff. So sure, I like my nails done.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:18:34]:
I like to, you know, get a face shield and massage and go I like all the outside stuff. But I really, really embrace the inner stuff. So I like to walk. And I so self care is walking to me, but that walking gives me so many opportunities, 1, to reflect. 2, it gives me the opportunity to just kinda think out some things. A lot of times, Where am I what where do I wanna go next? What kinds of things that I wanna talk about that I think are important for introverted leaders? I do that while I’m walking. While I’m walking, I’m thinking about, wow. And I’ll give you an example.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:19:18]:
The other day, I, And it’s Florida, so it’s always hard to tell. You know? The weather is all weird most of the time. And there was this blooming tree. Like And I it had to be in at least 40 degrees out. So it it wasn’t freezing weather, but it was it was really, you know, really low temperature. And then the balloons were just so beautiful. So I’m walking by the I’m walking by, because sometimes I just do a do a circle or something. And I’m looking at the bloom, and I’m thinking, wow.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:19:51]:
Like, if if this flower can bloom in this type of these type of conditions, the tree just keep going. It doesn’t ask permission to bloom. It doesn’t it just blooms. And this weather is not typically when that happens. So then I equate that to sometimes in our growth as an introverted leader. Sometimes you just have to keep going. Embrace the fact that okay. I may not I’m not gonna be the one that’s talking all the time.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:20:26]:
But I can well, I can do some damage with this pen. Like, I can write some things that are thought provoking. That’s gonna help you to think and go, oh. But it’s those unique things about you. So I I need that solitude. I need to walk. I need to to think and sometimes people are, Deborah, can I walk with you? You know? And I don’t be well, I’ll be just look at them because I’m like, no. That’s Deborah So that’s their 1st time.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:20:53]:
And so I create opportunities. I create opportunities for us to walk together, But then I prepare myself knowing that that’s gonna be my walk with my buddy. We gonna walk and that’s it. That’s not Deborah time. That’s gonna be our time to just kinda converse. Because when it’s Deborah time, I’m it’s it’s a lot going on. Like, I I gotta think about stuff. I gotta, you know, recharge just a little differently.

David Hall [00:21:17]:
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. We gotta recharge. We need time to think. And it’s brilliant. And sometimes people don’t understand that. I had somebody on the show, And it sounded like she regularly took a hike with a friend, but sometimes she needed exactly what you described.

David Hall [00:21:34]:
And, you know, her friend was like kind of offended like, oh, you’re going on a hike. Can I come? You know? And and, you know, it’s like sometimes, you know, it’s It’s hard to say, you know what? I love you, but I need this for me. I need this for us, actually. You know?

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:21:48]:
Right. Right. Absolutely. So you did it just create I create those opportunities because, you know, I’m not I’m I’m a loner and to a certain degree, but I enjoy I enjoy my friends. I enjoy the people in my circle. So I just have to create those opportunities where we have those type of conversation, like, well, yeah. I’m I’m walking. I’m solo on this one.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:22:12]:
Let’s schedule let’s schedule a time so We can get together and go do that, you know, that kind of thing.

David Hall [00:22:18]:
Yeah. We’re gonna talk about myths in a second, but, you know, definitely a myth That I bust is, of course, we like people. We just need some kind of nice balance where we have time to think. And, you know, when we’re talking about a time alone, There’s a lot of talk about introverts need to recharge. Yes. That’s true. But we need time alone for what you’re talking about, you know, to think. If I’m gonna give a presentation or a speech, I do best just like that with some time alone, letting the ideas roll around in my head, and I come up with things that way.

David Hall [00:22:49]:
It’s important to lay those out. Even. Those boundaries like, hey, you know what? I need to spend some time alone. It was crazy. But before the pandemic, I was used to going in the office every day. And then when I started Working solely from home, I realized, oh, I don’t miss driving. I don’t miss gas and all that. But this was My drive time was something for me.

David Hall [00:23:10]:
My drive time was my thinking time, and I missed that. And I had to figure out, how do I replace that? You know? And so I kind of made a joke with my wife. It’s like, alright, I’m driving home now. And that just meant I was gonna walk from my Office at home to my bedroom where I have a recliner and just chill out for a minute and then, you know, go have dinner or whatever. But just make that space between work and home where I could relax, maybe think about some things, but and, you know, and then go hang out with my family. I love my family.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:23:39]:
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It’s right now. We were still in business because our our wonderful people reside there until they don’t.

David Hall [00:23:47]:
Right. Right.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:23:48]:
And so I did get the opportunity to just kinda go into the office 3 days a week. And I agree with you. That was in a sense, it was like I was grieving, but I’m lost because I have a 30 minute commute to work. It’s a it’s a straight shot, but it’s a 30 minute commute. And a lot of times people are like, so so So what do you do? I said, look, I love audiobooks. I don’t listen to them every day. I like music. I don’t listen to that every day.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:24:14]:
I said, some days, I just it it’s just me and the road. I said, in that process, I’m just mentally preparing myself, for the work ahead. Like, You know, kinda going over my head a little bit about what needs to happen for today. And then sometimes it’s just a pure bliss. It’s just quiet. And I like that.

David Hall [00:24:35]:
Yeah. It’s needed. I agree. A lot of times on the way in, I’ll listen to things like Podcasts or audiobooks. And on the way home, it might be music or it might just be quiet, you know? So, yeah, I I relate very much.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:24:50]:
Yeah.

David Hall [00:24:50]:
I just busted 1 myth. Is there any other myths that you wanna bust about introverts?

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:24:56]:
Oh, David. You know, I gotta talk about why people think that introverts do not make great leaders.

David Hall [00:25:02]:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s that’s the main part of this show today. Absolutely, girl.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:25:06]:
Goodness. That one gets me every single time. A lot of it is the idea that you won’t be able to be as aggressive as you need to be as a leader. And so I’m like, well, I’m pretty assertive. I don’t know. I I’m sure there’s a time and a place where I have to get aggressive. But, Typically, because I’ve embraced the art of connecting, I think you know, we say communication all the time. But I think communication is just one of those words that we just throw around sometimes.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:25:40]:
So I prefer to say connect. Because when you connect with people, that when we walk away from each other, we both know what it is we’re going to do. We know what we just talked about. We’ve truly connected with each other. And I think as a leader, when you start to commune connect with people differently, I don’t think you have to be aggressive in things because you’re you’re being assertive. And I’ll give you an example. For my team, I have a a team of 5 dynamic trainers. They’re all we’re all very different people.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:26:18]:
But I’m an introverted leader, and I have some introverted staff on my team, and I have some extroverted staff. And they all Train. Like, we train hundreds and hundreds of people a year. So they’re in front of people, extroverted or introverted. But there are certain things about each of them that I I capitalize on because I know that. So I connect with each of them, And I promote leadership opportunities. I have that conversation. So tell me, what what would you like to do? What interests you? What types of so I find that the extra kind of, certifications and tailor them to how they fit the team.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:27:03]:
So I may have 1 person who may be certified in mental health first aid. I have 1 person who may be certified in, the WRAP program. So those are just additional certifications that not all the trainers will train because it just doesn’t speak to the person. Like, you are an amazing mental health first aid instructor. That might not be the same for one of my other instructors, but they’re they’re amazing at what they’re amazing at. Right? So All of it is about leadership development for my team so that they can take the lead on the things that they excel in. And so I I find that for them, and we talk about it. So that because that’s part of my job as their, leader, is to just kinda promote leadership development with them.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:27:58]:
And so when people say introverts don’t make the best leaders, I always have to throw out, you know, well, you know, Barack Obama is an introvert.

David Hall [00:28:07]:
Right. Right.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:28:07]:
We could be president. You know? There’s so many other people who’ve done amazing things. And me, even though I’m not the president of of the United States, I am just as dynamic in my own right. Doing what I did in Jacksonville, Florida. Right?

David Hall [00:28:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:28:24]:
So, yeah, just being that that’s another one of those that’s like, oh, come on. Are we still saying that?

David Hall [00:28:29]:
We’re trying to end that, aren’t we, Deborah? We’re trying to end that.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:28:31]:
We are. David, we’re gonna do it.

David Hall [00:28:35]:
And you know what? It’s funny because I hear things like that. You know, there’s this old stereotype that good leaders have to be aggressive, and I don’t even think most people want that. You know, do you want someone to be aggressive? No. Most people don’t want someone to be aggressive. So we’re all about introverts can be amazing leaders. Well but what’s different in the approach to being a great leader as an introvert? What what is different and what what are strengths that come from Your introversion as far as being a a great leader.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:29:03]:
I would say empathy and compassion. And some some of that, specifically for me, just some of it, it just comes with coming from a large family, literally walking in somebody else’s shoe, really learning parents taught us really how to just kinda connect with each other as a family, be concerned about something other than yourself all the time. I think as an as a leader introverted leader. Just having that empathy because I know decisions have to be made. Yeah. We’re gonna make some of and and a lot of them are tough decisions. But in that process, how often do we just kinda examine, you know, where people are. But meet people where they are.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:29:55]:
I’m the leader of Dynamic 5, but my my leader, She’s the leader of a 1000 employees. And so listening to everybody and and, you know, trying to make the best decisions that’s gonna work for Everybody, I know there are some challenges with that. But empathy, if we lead with kindness, we lead with empathy, I think that by itself changes the dynamic on our working environments. And then vision. I think it’s important to be able to cast a vision. And then, you know, with leaders, you’re not really a leader if nobody’s can nobody’s gonna follow. Right? So you gotta be able to cast a vision, but include people in that process so that people can feel supported, even if we because we will. We all gonna have some different opinions and some different thoughts about it.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:30:48]:
But just including everybody, including everybody. Everybody gets an opportunity to say these piece if that’s what they wanna do. A decision will be made, but just the idea of including or or inviting people to share their concerns and their thoughts, casting that vision of where we wanna be as a whole. We’re not just like, this is what I this is how I want the company to go, and this is where we’re going. So I think that becomes important for a leader to have that empathy and be able to cast a vision that people are gonna get on board with.

David Hall [00:31:26]:
Couple of things I want to ask you about that. So first, as far as creating that vision, it’s definitely important to Have other people involved in that. But I would say as an introverted leader, that’s one of our strengths that we also take some time to deep think About ourselves and set aside that time for strategic planning and things like that. And definitely, we need to include other people. But we have to recognize that some of the our best work is gonna be in that alone time that we give ourselves.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:31:56]:
Oh, absolutely. I I completely agree. I think when when when you’re talking about strategic planning and inclusiveness, I think A lot of times people don’t really want you to have all the answers, but they want you. They want you to come in with a framework. So at least so I can see where oh, I can see where we’re going with that. And you’re right. Casting that vision is about that solitude and the stillness, of your planning, of your, deep thinking and just kinda We can see the big picture just like anybody else, but we can take the big picture and break it down into smaller details. And we go deep with that.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:32:44]:
Like, we we we did it’s not just surface stuff. And I think that just kinda enable so if we have Senior leaders, we start and I think we’re able to start with a big picture and then drill down a bit, but to present that to senior leadership so that we can have a discussion about, you know, what’s what’s best and what’s not best, and then how we’re gonna lead the rest of the team.

David Hall [00:33:10]:
I know some of the best ideas have come from several people’s ideas, you know, in in groups. But at the same time, I just I want people to recognize that as an introvert, I’m going to think of some things on my own and bring those to the group. But I I really need to Do some work myself, but, you know, definitely, the group is very important in in bringing all kinds of perspectives together, Also valuing our alone time as well.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:33:37]:
Oh, absolutely. I oftentimes, you know. Because it’s so you wanna lead by example as you’re you’re you’re you’re helping people to understand, some of the best qualities of being an introvert. Preparing for meetings, there’s always gonna be an agenda the ahead of time. And on the agenda or or whenever the the correspondence goes out. I also would say, at least just give us a good 5 days before the actual meeting. If you can think of x y z, if there’s anything that you, been wanting to have a discussion about that we may have missed along the way, you know, let me know so that I can adjust the agenda. But I want everybody to be mindful of what the discussions will be.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:34:23]:
And the and the meeting is not gonna be, you know, for 2, 3, 4 hours. It’s it’s not that kind of meeting. So we’re gonna get through our agenda, but we’re also just gonna leave it open for, for you to be able to come in and share your concerns and your thoughts in that way. So I think it’s important to say in the meeting, Hey. We’re just we’re just having a discussion. I know some of the you know, some of you are gonna have some other additional questions that you’re gonna have. So just open it up so that people can not feel pressured to raise their hand and come up with an answer or whatever it is in the meetings. But just so that they will know that you don’t have to answer that now.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:35:05]:
If you come up with something or if you think of something that we may have missed or something you wanna add, then yes. Come see me.

David Hall [00:35:13]:
Right. And we need to make that okay. And like you said, it’s so important to understand both those that we work with that are introverts and those that We work with our extroverts that have different communication styles. You know, the introvert is gonna do so much better with some preparation with that agenda. So that’s so important. My goal is to best prepare for the meeting and say what I need to say, but as people that’s not always gonna happen. You are gonna think of things after the fact, like you said, and we need to make that okay to do that. I had another guest on that, especially with the big decisions, you know, they would always Give you all another day before we make this big decision, you know, because some people would need to process further afterwards.

David Hall [00:35:53]:
So

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:35:54]:
Oh, yeah. You mentioned earlier about just other, you know, MBTI and and how we can use that. Just getting to know your team for team enhancement and dynamics, but just understanding those pieces to it. I I know with some of my my team, I can send the best crafted email. I mean, I took my time with that. Right? I knew. I just did it right. They’re not gonna read that email because that’s not who they are.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:36:22]:
They will get up and come to you know, they’ll come because they need the face to face communication. So that communication now, becomes really, really important when we’re talking about leading. There are some people I can call you, you’re not gonna answer, or it’s gonna go to voice mail. I can send you the email. You may not read that either, but you might. You might get up and come to my office and have the conversation, face to face. So I have to be really mindful of that as a leader. So I took my time and I crafted this amazing email, but I know I’m gonna have to go down to that person’s office and say, hey.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:37:03]:
When you get a moment, check your email. But just a heads up, this is what I’m talking about. But check you know, it goes in-depth. You check it out later. And then and then they’re good with that because we had that face to face conversation. But they’re not and then I have those who are gonna check the email as soon as I hit send. Boom.

David Hall [00:37:22]:
It’s open. Right. Right. They can’t they can’t help it. It’s just the way they’re wired. They and that’s good. But

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:37:28]:
Absolutely. Absolutely.

David Hall [00:37:30]:
Yeah. Yeah. I was telling you before we hit record that I just saw a clip of you Talking about belonging and being inclusive. How does introversion apply to that? Understanding our workplaces and how Why introversion and our personalities are important as part of that belonging and and and being inclusive conversation.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:37:49]:
I don’t think people really think about introversion when they think about inclusion. We think about all the big things, male, female, you know, all the big things, but we don’t really think about just Leadership styles are different. We don’t think about the way people approach, situations or crises or things like that. We don’t necessarily think about inclusion to that degree. I know with my organization, A lot of times, there’s a lot of confusion. We set up these round tables, and everybody at the round table are extremely important people, and they’re very, very smart people, but they are not the people who do the work that you are going to make a decision about how the work should be done. If that makes Yes. Right? So I think about introversion that way is that it may to not invite me to the meeting because you think that I don’t have anything to contribute.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:38:55]:
That’s what I’m talking about with inclusion. I’m talking about Well, Deborah Deborah don’t ever say much at the meeting. Well, I may not say much at the meeting, but after the meeting, I go back and I’m able to provide or contribute in such a way that’s pretty important to the meeting or to the decision that will be made as a result of the meeting. So when I say everybody wants to be included, I understand skill come into play. I understand, your ability or performance. It may come into play. But I think it’s really, really important to not exclude people because you don’t think that they can contribute to the decisions that need to be made. And so everybody wants to belong.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:39:43]:
That’s a just give me the opportunity, I say. Give me the opportunity to to be a part of it. And if I choose not to, then that’s on me. But give me the opportunity to be able to contribute.

David Hall [00:39:56]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Something else that I know is important to both of us is developing confidence. You know, I know some very confident introverts, but how do you develop as an introvert when it’s lacking? K. It’s it’s a process. I mean, I think

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:40:11]:
I think you really have to accept the fact that It’s not gonna happen overnight, especially when there are so many but for different people, there’s just so many things that either, You know? It it makes me it motivates me to move forward, or it knocks me down and I don’t get back up for a while. Right? So I think if you’re introvert and you lack confidence, and it’s something that you really want to build, I think you wanna create opportunities for small wins. 1st, you have to start. But do one thing at a time. Just one thing. Practice that. Focus on that. And then embrace your strengths with it.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:40:56]:
Because I know as an introverted leader, I can’t ever say that I hated public speaking. It’s just I didn’t do it. But as an integrated leader, you have to be able to speak in public. You have to be a public speaker, but you do have to be able to speak in public. And so some of the things that you can do, since I know that’s something that I would need to be able to do, is that I can harness that skill. Toastmasters. Toastmasters can be small groups. The the meetings can be small, but it gives you the opportunity to practice that particular skill that you don’t feel like feel very confident at.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:41:38]:
So I think finding those things out there, one thing at a time, to improve. Do something that stretches you a little bit. Bur both personally and professionally. And just harness that. I mean, as as a introvert, I mean, we’re we’re good at planning and preparation. So you just plan and prepare to do one thing that might stretch you, that’s gonna build your confidence, and then celebrate your win with that.

David Hall [00:42:09]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I know with me, I was telling you that with public speaking, that’s what I learned I needed to do as an introvert, was prepared. That was my strength. When I was trying to just not do as much preparation, I definitely didn’t do as well, and I was a lot more nervous.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:42:24]:
I tell you, I I’ve learned in these last Since I’ve started doing, speaking abroad, I, I found I found what works best for me in preparation. So I I usually I have to write the whole speech out. Like, if it’s a 15 minute, I have to write it all out. Once I write it all out, then I have to record it. And then as I record it, when I spend my walking time And this is all about preparation. My walking time, my drive time. I’m listening to myself reciting the speech. And for whatever reasons, when I start doing it that way, I flow easily whenever I am speaking.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:43:11]:
And it doesn’t matter of, how many people I’m speaking in front of. As long as I’ve done that, that kinda, you know, ritual or so. It’s more free. It’s not pressured at all. And I don’t get I don’t get the butterflies. I mean, I get a little nervous to start with, but once I’m in it, then I’m in it. But I realized that for myself that there’s a process in my preparation for speaking that’s made it a lot easier to do in these last couple of years.

David Hall [00:43:43]:
Yeah. And that’s key, finding out what works. A lot of times, it’s gonna be from an introvert perspective. What you described, everybody might not do exactly that thing, but we have to figure out our preparation and what works for us.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:43:57]:
Oh, yeah. I told my kid that, you know, because he was watching me practice. He’s like, haven’t you run over that a 1000000 times, mom? Yes. And then I told him what I did. He’s like, oh my Gosh. Is that not overkill? And I said, what? This is the way I learned. This is the way I’m most comfortable with it, and this is the way I knock it out of the park every single time.

David Hall [00:44:16]:
So Awesome.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:44:17]:
You can do it differently. I said, you can do yours differently, but this is how I do mine.

David Hall [00:44:22]:
Yeah. But likely as introverts, the preparation is is the key. Deborah, this conversation has been wonderful, and it’s gone by so fast. Is there anything else that you wanna talk about that we haven’t?

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:44:35]:
Well, I do want to invite your listeners. I just launched My LinkedIn newsletter is, the inspired introverted nugget. So I Published the 1st article, almost 2 weeks ago. The second one is coming out on 17th. So I do would love for your audience to go, Check it out and subscribe if you feel like it applies to you. And just check me out on LinkedIn mostly is where I’m at, But I’m also on the other social, networks as DeBell Campbell. So, would love love to just kinda engage with more people like you and like me, David. Yeah.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:45:14]:
Yeah.

David Hall [00:45:14]:
We

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:45:14]:
can have these kind of conversations, and we can decide, like pinky in the brain that we’re gonna take over.

David Hall [00:45:21]:
That’s right. That’s right. Okay. I’ll put all that into the show notes. Thanks again for being on. This has just been a great conversation.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:45:28]:
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I was very excited, and I’m glad that, you know, I accepted the the invitation to come on, and I’m just excited to engage with the listening audience and, you know, Show show the world who we are.

David Hall [00:45:43]:
Yeah. That’s right. I like that. We’ll take over. Thank you.

Debra Bell-Campbell [00:45:46]:
You’re welcome.

David Hall [00:45:48]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I look forward to further connecting with you. Reach out at david@quietandstrong.com Or check out the quiet and strong.com website, which includes blog posts, links to social media and other items. Send me topics or guests You would like to see on the show. If you’re interested in getting to know yourself better, there’s now a free Typefinder Personality Assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report, including the four letter Myers Briggs code. I’ll add a link to the show notes. There’s so many great things about being an introvert, so we need those to be understood.

David Hall [00:46:26]:
Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.

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