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Show Notes

Have you ever wondered how your introverted nature can become your superpower at work? In this riveting episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, join your host David Hall as he engages with guest Julianna Yau Yorgan in a conversation that illuminates the path for introverts navigating the landscape of today’s workplace.

Listeners will learn the value of keeping track of accomplishments and how it can bolster self-awareness of one’s strengths. Discover Julianna’s insightful strategies on how introverts can tailor their career trajectories to suit their qualities.

Key takeaways for introverts navigating the workplace include:

– The power of identifying and playing to your introverted strengths in professional settings
– Practical tips for marketing your skills as an introvert, especially when preparing for job interviews
– Understanding that being introverted doesn’t equate to being shy or antisocial, and how meaningful connections can trump small talk
– The benefits of personalized guidance through coaching to achieve career goals.

Why should you listen? Whether you’re an introvert feeling out of place or someone who collaborates with introverts, this episode arms you with the knowledge and confidence to harness the unique qualities that come with introversion. Julianna, with her wealth of experience in leadership and as a career coach for introverts, offers a treasure trove of advice and personal anecdotes that will inspire you to embrace who you are and find your niche for professional success.

So, tune in to The Quiet And Strong Podcast for an enlightening discussion that promises to empower the introspective individuals among us to own their space in the workforce confidently. Remember, being strong comes in different forms. Embrace your introversion, and be strong.

Embracing Introversion in the Workplace

In our latest episode, we take a deep dive into the strengths that introverts bring to the table and explore how to thrive in an extrovert-dominated workplace. I had the pleasure of sitting down with Julianna Yau Yorgan, a career and leadership coach who has found her calling helping introverts realize their potential without conforming to the extroverted norm.

Understanding and Capitalizing on Introverted Strengths

As an introvert myself, I’ve always been captivated by the unique ways in which we can leverage our quieter tendencies to our advantage. Julianna brought her fantastic insights into how maintaining a diary of accomplishments can help identify personal strengths. Reflecting on these nuggets of success not only bolsters self-confidence but also acts as a map to one’s natural skill set.

Introverts in Sales: A Surprising Match

Surprising as it may seem, sales can be a great fit for introverts. Julianna and I agree that introversion, contrary to popular belief, is not about being antisocial — it’s about how we recharge and where we draw our energy from. Building profound relationships and understanding clients’ needs resonate well with the introverted approach.

Strategies for Job Interviews and Career Advancement

I’ve witnessed many introverts struggle with interviews and self-promotion. Julianna advocates for the STAR format (Situation, Task, Action, Result) in preparing stories for interviews. Focusing on tangible achievements and practicing these stories can make a significant difference.

The Power of Observation and Group Dynamics

Julianna values her keen power of observation, which allows her to read group dynamics adeptly. We discussed how introverts possess this subtle art of understanding unspoken cues, which is beneficial both professionally and personally.

The Myth of Shyness in Introversion

Introverts often wrestle with misconceptions labeling them as shy or antisocial. Julianna and I discussed how meaningful conversations — not small talk — are the preferred currency of introverts. Shyness is not exclusive to introverts; extroverts can be shy too.

“I would like to bust the myth that introverts are shy and antisocial. That is the one that irks me the absolute most because we simply aren’t.”— Julianna Yau Yorgan

Quiet and strong podcast, Ep 169

The Genesis of the “Daring to Succeed” Podcast

Our conversation also explored Julianna’s journey in podcasting and how her show “Daring to Succeed” came into existence. Designed as a platform to provide advice and stories for introverts, her podcast shines a light on the spectrum of introversion.

The Role of a Coach in an Introvert’s Career

Echoing the focus on individualized strategies, Julianna compares the role of a coach in careers to athletes in sports. One size does not fit all. A tailored approach, especially for introverts in the workplace, is crucial for genuine growth and success.

Embracing Introversion as a Part of Your Professional Identity

One of the episodes I found most riveting was Julianna’s discussion on recognizing and embracing her introverted nature after many years in corporate leadership. Reading “Quiet” by Susan Cain was a pivotal moment on her journey, which she now shares to change the narrative around introverted leaders.

Celebrating Introverted Leadership

Towards the end of our conversation, we celebrated being outspoken and confident as introverts. Advocating for all introverts to embrace their unique aspects, we believe in contributing to our workplaces in our way – not merely mirroring extroverted expectations.

Connecting with The Quiet And Strong Community

Finally, I invite you all to connect with me and suggest topics or guests you’d like to hear about on The Quiet And Strong Podcast. Visit our website at, where you’ll find valuable resources, blog posts, and a free type finder personality assessment.

Our episode with Julianna Yau Yorgan has been an incredible journey into understanding and embracing introversion in the workplace. As always, we are here to offer a voice to those who thrive in quietness and show the immense value they bring to any professional environment. Stay tuned for more episodes, and remember, being introverted is not something to overcome, but something to celebrate and utilize as your strength.

Lessons Learned from this Episode

  • Julianna Yau Yorgan advises keeping a record of personal accomplishments to help recognize one’s strengths.
  • She underscores the notion that introverts can excel in careers like sales by focusing on relationship-building and understanding client needs.
  • It’s essential for introverts to market themselves by highlighting tangible results and preparing interview responses using the STAR format.
  • Introverts often have strong observational skills and can read group dynamics effectively, contrary to the misconception that they are shy or antisocial.
  • David Hall and Julianna discuss preparing interview stories and topics in advance for introverts to feel confident in those settings.
  • Coaching for introverts is likened to sports coaching, offering personalized guidance and emphasizing individualized strategies over one-size-fits-all advice.
  • Julianna’s “Daring to Succeed” podcast provides insights on introversion, aiming to offer support to introverts who cannot attend live events.
  • Listeners can engage with Julianna Yau Yorgan’s content through her LinkedIn profile and at
  • The Quiet and Strong Podcast, hosted by David Hall, is a platform dedicated to appreciating and leveraging the strengths of introverts.

Make Changes Now

Here are five actionable steps you can take immediately after listening to Q&S Podcast Ep 169 – Julianna Yau Yorgen:

  1. Start a Diary of Accomplishments: Following Julianna’s advice, begin documenting your daily and weekly accomplishments. This will help you to reflect on your strengths and the successful strategies that you’ve implemented. It’s a tangible way to track personal growth and can serve as a confidence booster, especially when preparing for job interviews or performance reviews.
  2. Identify Your Preferred Communication Style: In tune with Julianna’s insights about introverts excelling in roles like sales through relationship-building and understanding clients’ needs, take some time to reflect on how you best communicate and interact in professional settings. Use this self-awareness to highlight your strengths in your resume, cover letters, and interviews.
  3. Take the Type Finder Personality Assessment: Head over to the website and complete the free type finder personality assessment mentioned by host David Hall. This will give you a better understanding of your Myers-Briggs personality type, which can provide insights into your communication style, decision-making process, and work preferences.
  4. Prepare Your STAR Stories: Practice and refine your interview skills using the STAR format (Situation, Task, Action, Result). Prepare a few stories that demonstrate your key accomplishments or challenges you’ve overcome. This will equip you with ready-to-share narratives that showcase your skills and can make the interview process for an introvert feel more comfortable and controlled.
  5. Explore Professional Coaching: Consider reaching out to a career or leadership coach like Julianna Yau Yorgan to get personalized guidance on leveraging your introverted nature in your career. If you find that traditional advice doesn’t always resonate with you as an introvert, a tailored coaching approach might offer the individualized support you need to excel in your professional endeavors.

By implementing these actions, you will be actively employing Julianna Yau Yorgan’s advice to further your professional development in a manner that respects and utilizes your introverted qualities.

Contacts and Links

Julianna Yau Yorgan is a former Manager and Director at one of Canada’s largest P&C insurers. After thriving in her 20-year corporate career, she is now a professional coach helping other introverts thrive in an extrovert’s workplace – without doing all the “extrovert things.”

Connect with Julianna:
Resources just for Quiet and Strong Listeners:

– – –

Contact the Host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast:

David Hall

Author, Speaker, Educator, Podcaster
david [at]

Take the FREE Personality Assessment:

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Minding Your Time: Time Management, Productivity, and Success, Especially for Introverts

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Timestamped Overview

00:00 Introvert journey to leadership and self-awareness
04:25 Discovering introversion’s significance and challenging societal preferences.
09:00 Observation skills in work and personal life.
11:14 Introverts aren’t necessarily shy or antisocial.
15:26 Career coach specializing in introverts, not extroverts.
19:37 Don’t assume, address specific concerns for coaching.
22:02 Group conversations can be difficult for introverts.
25:25 Discover strengths by seeking feedback from others.
32:36 Introverts excel at showcasing their achievements discreetly.
33:26 Practice telling key accomplishments for successful interviews.
39:14 Started live LinkedIn audio, launched Daring to Succeed.
40:49 Podcast episodes on the Daring to Succeed Podcast are short and focused.

Podcast Transcript

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:00:00]:
Well, those are all very introverted tendencies, right? Listening more than they talk, trying to find solutions, building a relationship over time. So I think for people out there who are introverted and worried about, oh, can I really do this job that everyone tells me is more extroverts? Well, yes, you can. You just need to find your own way to do it in a way that can make you successful. Not just doing what someone else is doing that may or may not make them successful.

David Hall [00:00:43]:
Hello, and welcome to episode 169 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I’m your host, David Hall, and the creator of This is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally, we’ll learn each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform. Leave a review or a rating. That would mean a lot to me.

David Hall [00:01:08]:
Tell a friend. Help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Julianna Yau Yorgan is a former manager and director at one of Canada’s largest P and C insurers. After thriving in her 20 year corporate career, she is now a professional coach helping other introverts thrive in an extrovert’s workplace without doing all the extrovert things. All right. Well, welcome to the Quiet and Strong podcast, Julianna. Julianna, it’s so nice to have you on today.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:01:39]:
Thank you so much for having me, David.

David Hall [00:01:41]:
And, we’re gonna get into the work you do and and your podcast. I have the pleasure to be on your podcast, so it’s great to have you on this one. So tell us about first your journey. You’re an introvert and now you’re coaching other introverts.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:01:57]:
Yeah. So I think unlike a lot of introverts, I didn’t really have an moment of AI. I’m an introvert Growing up, I was always told I was quite on the quiet side or that I was like, an old soul. And that was just who I was. Never really thought much about it. And it wasn’t even until I got into leadership that it was a topic that I even thought about. It really came across when I was having conversations with other leaders, when we were talking about performance of certain people, you know, comparing, oh, you know, well, Sally’s doing really well, but what about Jill or whoever else And all of the standard things that you would expect would come up. Like this person is too quiet.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:02:47]:
They don’t ask enough questions. They don’t volunteer enough. And I always challenge that because it was never something that was linked back to their actual performance. And I just thought it was really interesting that they saw it that way. And then later on in my career as a leader, I also had a lot of people come up to me and asked me about moving into leadership themselves, but they said, oh, I’m introverted. I don’t know if that’s really going to work for me. I’m like, well, I’m introverted. I think I’m doing just fine.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:03:20]:
And they were always surprised because I was out there doing presentations and meeting with vendors and and stakeholders and things like that. So it’s just, it wasn’t until I, I was in that position of leadership where I was just naturally leading the way I thought I should be as a leader and talking to other people who had a very different view on what a leader was, what a good employee was, that it kind of came up in my mind that, Hey, there’s this introversion thing that I always just took for granted. I just thought that’s who I was, that other people don’t see it that way. And they, they actually see it as a weakness, not a strength.

David Hall [00:04:03]:
So this is well into your career. You’re you’re having these thoughts.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:04:06]:
Exactly. Yeah. It, it was, gosh, I would have been in my career for 15, 16 years before I even thought about introversion in the workplace. Okay. Yeah.

David Hall [00:04:20]:
When did she become aware of what an introvert was?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:04:25]:
Again, I don’t think there was like a specific moment, but I do know that when I was reading Quiet by Susan Cain, it was something that that really kind of stuck in my mind because up until that point, I think I knew what introversion was. I knew that there were people who were louder, people who were quieter, people who preferred groups and large events and other people who preferred smaller groups and 1 on 1 interactions. I read that book as part of helping someone else who was always seen as very quiet to kind of get some insights that I could then pass along. And again, reading that book, I was like, wow, I didn’t actually realize that there was this whole topic of introversion and how different everybody saw introversion, whether they were introverted or not. And that anywhere from, I think, what is it? 30 to 60% of the population is introverted. So why are we so fascinated with extroverted energies being the holy grail of how you are supposed to be?

David Hall [00:05:39]:
Yeah. Yeah. I, I say it’s about 50%. And I did a presentation to HR professionals and I did a little poll and it was 61%. So it’s interesting. So how did that, you know, reading Susan Cain’s book or other thoughts that you had, have that changed things for you while you were still working in your previous career?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:06:01]:
Yeah. I think because I’m not necessarily a shy introvert, I can be quite outspoken and very stubborn. I I kind of made it my own little personal mission to combat that where I could, whether that was 1 on 1 with people who were introverts, who didn’t believe in themselves or didn’t think they had what it took to do certain things or fill certain roles or go toe to toe with those very extroverted leaders who insisted that their staff have to be a certain way. I even remember an off-site meeting where I don’t remember the exact topic, but we were in this room and people were putting up their hands to talk about certain things, but it was always the same people were putting up their hands.

David Hall [00:06:51]:

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:06:51]:
And I’m sure you’ve been in that situation yourself. And one of the other leaders was really I don’t want to say egging on, but they were really pressing the group to say, okay, there’s a lot of you who haven’t spoken up yet. What do you like participate? Can you put up your hand, ask questions, respond to things? And I finally got really frustrated and said, look, I think there are a lot of people in this room who have something to say about this topic, but I don’t think they feel comfortable with that. Like with speaking up in this environment. I know because I used to be in that situation years ago and you telling me that it’s a safe space doesn’t make it feel any safer. So maybe can we think about, is there another way they can participate after the meeting? Like, can we send out a survey? Can they speak with their individual managers 1 on 1 to still participate in this conversation, but not in this room with dozens of eyeballs looking at them.

David Hall [00:07:59]:
Right. Right. That’s the thing, like with the 50% number, you said you, you know, you were outspoken and stubborn and I know a lot of outspoken introverts and some have always been that way, you know, and have always been confident and the others can learn to be confident and outspoken when needed. And that’s why I do my work because I really think that you’re not changing the introversion, but you sure can learn how to embrace it and and get what you want and and, you know, speak up in that meeting or, you know, so my ideal is that you would speak up in the meeting. Right. But you should be able to contribute afterward or in a different way if that’s if that’s better. So, you know, all of those things. But, you know, even just asking for that, like, hey, you know, can I contribute after that? That could take courage from someone too.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:08:54]:

David Hall [00:08:55]:
So what have you discovered that it’s a strength that you have because you’re an introvert?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:09:00]:
I would say my power of observation. So not necessarily listening skills, but reading a room, reading a group dynamic, because I don’t personally need to be center stage. I’m very comfortable with just sitting there and watching things happen and getting a read on, okay, what what’s the dynamic here? What what’s the underlying tone of what’s happening that’s not being said? And I find both in professional and personal life, it’s a really powerful skill because obviously in the workplace, there are a lot of political situations that people tend to shy away from because they just don’t know how to deal with it, or they just don’t want to because it’s so icky sometimes. I can kind of sit back and observe the room and say, okay, kind of get what’s going on here and who is in a position of influence, who is the real decision maker despite titles and who’s delegated as the decision maker and use that information to then inform how I can influence myself. So if there’s certain people who are more influential and more comfortable with interrupting people, because as outspoken as I am, sometimes it’s very difficult to edge into a conversation. I can build a relationship with those people, share my thoughts with them and let them be my voice. So long as we get to the end result, don’t really care who gets the credit, but that’s me. There’s me deal with that differently and in personal life as well.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:10:41]:
Right? Looking at family dynamics, friend dynamics, just understanding what’s happening in that situation, even if I’m not an active participant in that moment is just so valuable.

David Hall [00:10:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s definitely that’s definitely introvert strength that is very needed. It’s very needed. So we talk about strengths and needs, and we’ll definitely talk about some needs as we go through this show. But and we also bust this here. So what’s a myth that you would like to bust about introverts?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:11:14]:
Oh, yay. I would like to bust the myth that introverts are shy and antisocial. That is the one that irks me the absolute most because we simply aren’t. I mean, I’m sure there are introverts who are also shy and or antisocial, but they’re not 1 in the same. I think because we don’t need to edge our way into a conversation all the time because we take a little bit more time to open up and feel like we can share ourselves to people. It often is misread as being either disinterested or not wanting to participate in a social interaction, but having done the work that I’ve done for the last about year or so, I’ve talked to so many introverts where that that connection is almost instant because we don’t even bother with the small talk. There’s not that 10 minute intro of talking about the weather and the traffic and whatever else we get right into those, those meaty conversations. And it feels much more comfortable as well because we give each other space to gather our thoughts and really delve into those topics.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:12:34]:
Whereas depending on the extrovert that you’re speaking with, it may not be the same situation or I’ve seen groups that are predominantly extroverted. And I don’t even know if anybody’s listening. They’re just all kind of like, and I have something to add to that. So I think calling introverts shy and antisocial is probably one of the best ways to get us very aggravated about who we are as individuals.

David Hall [00:13:05]:
Yeah, definitely. And I mean, again, half the population are you maybe, maybe more are introverts. Half the population is not shy. And the other thing is, extroverts can be extroverts can be shy too. So there are shy extroverts. And I will say that sometimes if someone doesn’t understand their introversion, that can make them shy. But understanding your introversion, if that’s the case, that was the case for me. Not understanding that I thought first and then spoken versus my

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:13:37]:

David Hall [00:13:37]:
my extroverted colleagues that are speaking out loud most of the time. If you don’t understand that, that could make you shy. But definitely it’s not shyness. But if you are shy and you want to gain confidence, absolutely that you can do that. That’s that’s the great thing.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:13:55]:
Yeah. And that’s such a great point that you make because I’ve met a lot of extroverts who are shockingly shy for the extroverted energy that they bring with them all the time. And it it’s always like little things that it’s like, oh, I didn’t realize you were shy. Like I had one colleague who came to visit the office that I was in and there just had been to be a leadership meeting for the local leaders. So I said, Hey, why don’t you come join us? And the thing I always did was sit with a different group of people in these meetings. So I didn’t like to just sit with the people that I knew and she felt so lost because she didn’t know anybody in that office. Didn’t know who she could talk to, but this was a person who would burst into the office with her own team and just be this loud, vibrant, energetic person. But somehow putting her in a room with people, she didn’t know that that shyness that I didn’t realize was there just overtook the entire situation.

David Hall [00:15:02]:
Yeah. Yeah. And that that definitely could be for extroverts too. And I do think that. The process for overcoming shyness often will be different for the extrovert than the introvert. It’s going to be a different understanding. And I think it could be tougher to be a shy extrovert.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:15:21]:
I think so.

David Hall [00:15:22]:
Yeah. So. So tell us about the work that you’re doing now.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:15:26]:
Yeah. So I’m a career and leadership coach. I do work with some extroverts, but primarily I focus on working with introverts because entering the coaching space, I found that there were so many voices and obviously there’s, it’s a whole matchmaking thing. So you’ve got to find the right coach for the right person and, and the challenges that they’re having. And I found there wasn’t really a lot of people talking about introversion or if they were, it was about getting rid of their introversion, which was a little distasteful for me. So because I know I’ve had a really strong career being an introvert and not having to do all the things that I’m supposed to do to be more extroverted to get there and having coached others in the past as well to find their own way and not necessarily have to put up their hand at every single meeting for visibility or volunteer for every single thing that comes up, just so that they’re heard. I wanted to help other introverts out there gain that confidence and feel comfortable with doing things differently, but still getting to the same end result.

David Hall [00:16:41]:
Yeah, absolutely. So why Tell us about the benefits of working with a coach, especially as an introvert.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:16:50]:
Yeah. So I I think a lot of people know to work with a mentor, which is fantastic. Mentors are a really critical in, in helping you get ahead because there are people whose careers you want to emulate, or they’ve, they’ve gone through the same challenges as you. Working with the coach is a little bit different though. It would be, I’d like to use the analogy of working with another person in a sport versus working with a coach in a sport. So let let’s take soccer or football since I’m in Madrid. It would be like if you were a soccer player and you went to another soccer player and said, help me, what should I do? And they give you their exact meal plan, their exact workout regimen, their exact wardrobe. And they say, this is what I do.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:17:42]:
You should do all this because I’ve done it. Well, that may work if you’re in the same starting point as they were, and you have the same physiology and you have the same needs. But what if you don’t? And that’s where a coach comes in, where they come in, assess where your starting point is, what your goals are, what your individual needs are and help you get there. So, for example, with me, a lot of my clients start off with a specific goal and not that I change their goal for them, but they see the goal in a bit of a different light. And that leads them to realizing, oh, if I want that promotion, I don’t have to do all the things everyone else is telling me to do that I’ve been doing and isn’t working. Because of my situation, I can do these other things that are more effective that apply to my specific situation.

David Hall [00:18:39]:
Yeah, absolutely. So often extrovert advice may not work for introverts. You know, like I said, I think that overcoming shyness, if I’m going to help someone overcome shyness, I need to understand their introversion. You know, that’s an important part of it. So why, why might not extrovert advice work for introverts in some cases?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:19:00]:
Yeah. And I like that you say in some cases, because I’m sure for some introverts, even just being a little bit more extroverted can help them and it goes a long way. But I think when the source of the problem isn’t shyness, which people again, just assume is the exact same thing as introversion, they’re solving for the wrong problem or they’re, they’re trying to solve every problem with the same toolkit. Right? There’s that thing. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. So Right.

David Hall [00:19:36]:
Yeah. Love that.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:19:37]:
Right. So, so if the only things you have are you need to speak up more, you need to work on your presentation skills, you need to motivate people. All those extroverted things that are the standard here, go do these things and you’ll be better in your career. If that’s all, you know how to coach someone on, then it may not work if that’s not the actual problem. Like I had someone who was trying to get promoted and her boss said, you need to work on your communication skills. Had she had gone to someone else, they probably would have helped her with how to present in front of a large group, go to what are those things called? Toastmasters. Go to Toastmasters and get, get comfortable with speaking in front of people. Instead, what I did was talk to her about, okay, when your boss says this, what is it specifically that she’s talking about? And we talked about it for a little bit and it turns out it, it wasn’t her public speaking skills.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:20:43]:
It was that her boss thought that she was too detailed when she was talking to her and she felt she needed to be more concise to take on the role that she was targeting. So had she gotten all these oratory skills that wouldn’t have actually helped with the fact that her boss thought she was just too wordy. So instead, what we did was targeted a plan for her that would demonstrate to her boss that she could take large amounts of information and condense it to very simplified queer language and be able to meet that need for her. So I think, you know, like I said, if she had gone to another coach or a coach that she was told, Hey, you need to work on your communication. Okay. I’m going to go to a coach who’s going to help me with my communication. That may be the wrong type of communication that she needs help with.

David Hall [00:21:40]:
So you got it, what the issue really was.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:21:44]:
Exactly. And because she was also an introvert, it was comfortable for us to really dig in to figure out what that problem was before we put her plan together.

David Hall [00:21:55]:
Yeah. Is there another common workplace issue that introverts face and that you have a strategy for?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:22:02]:
Oh, that’s a good question. I think a lot of the times the group conversations are really difficult for introverts. So beyond just the whole speaking up topic, a lot of the times introverts will take a lot of time to kind of formulate an opinion or a thought, but once they get it, they’re like, oh my goodness, I want to share this with everyone.’ And like I mentioned, edging into that conversations can sometimes be really difficult for an introvert. I find in person, actually the classic putting up your hand actually works really well. You may need to wait a little bit, but it’s a it’s an easy way to signal that you have something to add. And it translates really well to virtual meetings because there’s that little icon that you can click in in most tools to actually virtually raise your hand, or you’ve been just typing in the chat, hey, I want to contribute. I have something to add. And then just waiting your turn.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:23:07]:
Of course, that does rely on having a really good facilitator for the meeting who’s actually paying attention. But oftentimes I find that people, other people in those meetings who are engaged and looking for others who want to participate, will speak on your behalf to make sure that you get that entry point into the conversation.

David Hall [00:23:27]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I don’t like raising my hand, but the virtual but the virtual meeting, I mean, when there’s so many people that are trying to share something, that is a nice thing about virtual meetings that, yeah, you know what? I really need to say this. So, you know, at least people know you’re going to get your turn by raising your hand. So that that is a nice benefit of the, all the virtual meetings that we’re in now.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:23:51]:
Yeah. Or even just putting the thought into the chat, if the conversation’s getting really active and heated, depending on the group dynamic that you’re in, I’ve been in some larger meetings where there’s a full it

David Hall [00:24:15]:
it’s it is a good way. Like, it’s kind of like raising your hand. But I mean, at the same time, it depends on if that the person is paying attention to the chat. If somebody if somebody is paying attention to the chat. So. Yeah, definitely. So you mentioned a strength that you had a little bit earlier. How do you help introverts discover their strengths?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:24:38]:
Yeah. So a lot of the times it’s talking to them about their moments of pride. So introverts really struggle with talking about themselves, either it’s uncomfortable or something. I don’t know. That is one topic that I haven’t delved into enough is why we’re so uncomfortable talking about ourselves. But I find rather than talking about, Hey, I’m so amazing. And I did all these things When I guide the conversation to what are you most proud of in your career that can really draw us to why it was that they were proud. And it’s because they were able to do something that no one else in that situation was.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:25:25]:
And that’s usually what what they’re most proud of is their contribution. And that contribution is their uniqueness, is their strength. For those of you who aren’t in a position to work with a coach or don’t want to, what I also find is really effective is just going to the people that you work with and, and asking them. It doesn’t have to be everyone, but I mean, your boss obviously should be able to give you something hopefully, but even coworkers that you’re close with just asking them, hey, is there something I do that’s different than everyone else? Is there a way that I do things that that is different than how everyone else does it? And you’d really be surprised by what comes back. I did that myself at one point, and I always thought that when I was upset that it really came across and that I was like yelling at people and getting really irate and without actually asking about that particular trait of mine, they said, oh, you’re always so calm. Even when I think you’re really angry, you come off as very even keel and and, like, you’re not even bothered by this. I’m like, what? How was that even possible? Because internally, I’m like raging. So it it’s really interesting to actually get that real feedback from external on what your strengths are because sometimes it’s it’s not what you think.

David Hall [00:26:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think both are important, so we should you know, those accomplishments and that you have. And I think a common thing that we have is a gift of reflection. So it’s like what you were describing. It’s like, think about, you know, those accomplishments and that you have. And I’ve heard people say it’s really good to track those to keep a list of those and you can remind yourself, but you could also reflect on them and discover your strengths.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:27:18]:
Yeah. And that’s actually something I haven’t thought of before is, yes, we’ve we’ve often been told to keep that diary or or log of all of our accomplishments for year end reviews and and whatever else for our resumes. But looking at those and trying to see if there are similarities in the accomplishments that you’ve had can also help you kind of pinpoint what is that commonality that could be a strength of mine that I wasn’t aware of.

David Hall [00:27:47]:
Yeah. And then how do introverts take these strengths and put them into a career path to find that, that job that they love?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:27:56]:
Yeah. I think the way I look at career pathing for introverts is a little bit different than most people. I think we’re often expected to say, oh, because we’re introverted, these skillsets are a better fit for certain roles. And I simply don’t see it that way may or may not be true.

David Hall [00:28:18]:
We are on the same page with that one. Yes. So

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:28:22]:
because I’ve talked to people who are like, oh, why why is that person even in sales if they’re introverted or why are they in leadership if they’re introverted? I’m like, oh my goodness. No. Where it’s, you should be able to strive towards the career that you want, but figuring out what strengths that you have or can develop in a way that’s natural to be able to do that job. So let’s take sales, which is a very classically non introverted career path. Most people think of salesman as, or salespeople as the used car salesman. Somebody who’s trying to sell you on a dream and a vision and upsell you on this car that is terrible, but you really don’t want to buy, but you’re going to be convinced that you’re going to buy by the end of the conversation. And in a lot of sales psychology, it’s actually known that those tactics are terrible. Either the person will come back or return the car or whatever they’re being sold, or it will, the sale will actually not go through or something will happen that it could be just like a one time sale and then you get badmouthed all through the community.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:29:42]:
Whereas most of the sales psychology that talks about what a strong salesperson is. It’s somebody who builds a strong relationship, really understands the needs of the person they’re selling to and is able to meet those needs. Well, those are all very introverted tendencies, right? Listening more than they talk, trying to find solutions, building a relationship over time. So I think for people out there who are introverted and worried about, oh, can I really do this job that everyone tells me is more extroverts? Well, yes, you can. You just need to find your own way to do it in a way that can make you successful. Not just doing what someone else is doing that may or may not make them successful.

David Hall [00:30:33]:
Yeah. That’s a really good example. And I’m with you. It’s like introverts and extroverts. There’s not particular jobs, you know, I will say, so I have no desire to be in sales. But if I but if I was in sales, I could be very successful, but my strategies and my approach would probably look different than an extroverted colleague would. And that’s the difference. It’s the approach.

David Hall [00:30:57]:
We might succeed differently. The approach is gonna look different. But in general, I don’t think there’s particular jobs for introverts or extroverts. There’s definitely a lot of stereotypes out there. You know, it’s funny. Acting comes up a lot on this show.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:31:12]:
It does. Yes.

David Hall [00:31:14]:
And and there are probably more actors are introverts than not, you know, or comedians. You know, there’s probably a lot more introverts and people will say, no, they can’t be. They can’t be an introvert. But, you know, it’s just it. There’s there’s things that lend them lend themselves to being a great actor as an introvert, you know? So it’s just there’s a lot of things that we still got to bust.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:31:38]:
Yes, absolutely. I don’t remember the person, but there was some sort of performer recently who did an interview and said they were an introvert. I’m like, oh my god. I didn’t know that. But not not surprised that they could do the job, but just that even for myself as an introvert, sometimes I forget that there are a lot of performers out there who are introverted and they have their own way of doing things.

David Hall [00:32:04]:
Yeah. They have their own way to prepare. And maybe, you know, when the camera’s not rolling, they’re recharging and they have their different things they need to do. But it’s yeah. There’s definitely for the most part, I don’t think there’s introvert and extrovert jobs. I just think the approach is gonna look different.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:32:23]:
Totally agree.

David Hall [00:32:24]:
And then how do you help people once they’ve identified the kind of job they want? How do you help them market their skills and and and get that job and make it through the interview process and all of that good stuff?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:32:36]:
Yeah, it it really depends on the situation. I’ll maybe break it down to the most common ones. Obviously, if you’re applying for a role, your resume is going to speak on your behalf. So that’s where I think introverts usually come at the strongest because we do put in the little bit of effort ahead of time to put that together. Again, talking about our own accomplishments is really challenging. So I work with them to figure out, okay, forget for a moment talking about how you got there, but let’s start with the result and work our way back to, okay, this was the end result. This was where we started from. Let’s fill in in the middle, what it was that you personally did to tie that together.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:33:26]:
And, and that becomes then their, their key points or key accomplishments for those roles to really sell to the employer or the, the recruiter so that they’re like, oh, wow, these are very tangible results. I want to talk to this person to see if they can bring that to our company as well. The interview honestly is a lot of practice. So whether it’s podcasting, as you know, or interviewing, it all has to do with practicing those stories that you want to tell about who you are, your accomplishments, what you do, how you do it. There’s a, I don’t know if you’re familiar with it. I think you may be the star format of situation or task, action and result that I like to use. It’s the same one I use for resumes where it gives introverts a little bit of a structure to how they’re talking about themselves to say, situation was that we had a project that was behind schedule and we still had to deliver on time. There was no, there was no option for us to extend the deadline.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:34:36]:
The action I personally took was looked at all of the work that was required, assessed that there was actually a lot of work that we were agreeing to that wasn’t necessary for us to deliver on the project, got agreement that we would do those things afterwards and not impact the delivery. And the result is that we delivered on time and then we spent an extra 3 weeks finishing those other tasks that we collectively agreed were not critical. Very concise. Very easy to understand that it’s a specific contribution that you made because that’s really what the employer wants to know. They don’t want to know that, oh, we, as a collective did all these things because they’re not hiring your team. They’re hiring you. So that I find is really good for introverts because they can be very focused on actions and results rather than talking about themselves.

David Hall [00:35:32]:
Yeah. I think you bring up a really good point because the struggle of introversion is often that we think about things. We need to think about things. In the moment, You know, we might get caught off guard and not be able to think about what we want to say. And so when you’re talking about stories like that, that’s what that’s what’s gonna be so helpful is to really gather your stories. And so when you’re in the moment and they ask a question, you do have a story to go with it and to just do your very best to prepare. You’re not going to be able to prepare for any question because who knows what they’re going to throw at you. But but, you know, gather some really good stories about yourself and, you know, going back to the accomplishments so that you’re ready for those and you’re not caught off guard.

David Hall [00:36:22]:
And, you know, just as much as possible, be ready to share those if you need just a second to think. Say so and just, you know, be comfortable with that to gather your thoughts, that kind of thing. So, yeah, gathering our stories because we do think about things, you know?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:36:40]:

David Hall [00:36:41]:
It’s in our biology. We’re wired. We’re wired to think deeply. And it’s a good thing. A lot of strengths come from it, but it can really get us hung up in a situation like a job interview if we’re not if we haven’t thought about some things ahead of time. So, you know, do our best to think about stories that we might share that might be relevant, just like the one you just shared and, and have those ready to, to share in those interview situations.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:37:07]:
Yeah. I mean, similar to our conversation today, obviously I’ve, I’ve thought a lot about the things that I want to talk about or the things that might come up and, you know, once in a while, you’ll get a curve ball and that just makes the conversation, the interview authentic. But at the end, you still have all these stories that you can just pull from and hopefully match up with the conversation as it’s coming into fruition.

David Hall [00:37:33]:
Yeah. So let’s, let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about your daring to succeed podcast. Cause that’s also very, I think what we just talked about with the job interview is just relevant to so much of what we do as introverts, where we think first it’s awesome strength that we have, but we could get hung up with it. And it comes with podcasting too. Like here’s a couple introverts podcasting. We’re having a great time. I, you know, we have a lot to say we’ve, you know, we have a lot to share.

David Hall [00:38:06]:
But both of us thought about, you know, what we might say ahead of time. And, you know, in our case, we’ve definitely given a lot of thought to introversion and introversion and careers, introversion and podcasting, introversion and public speaking. And so we are we are more ready. But, you know, there’s definitely going to be some. Some things where we’re caught off guard. And this is really funny. I was just on someone’s podcast and they asked me. What was the weakness of introversion.

David Hall [00:38:36]:
And I don’t like to think of it in those terms. Yeah. And I, and I can’t remember exactly what I said for, for something, but then I was like, there’s something else I want to share. And it didn’t come to me. And then after afterward, I’m like, that’s it. You’re able to always think of that thing you wanna say. And that was just so ironic that that was the thing. So I I still I still gave an answer, but there was additional answer I wanted to give that just didn’t come to me.

David Hall [00:39:01]:
But that was it. That that that happens sometimes. So tell us about your podcast and I had the pleasure of being on it. And it’s again, it’s great to have you on today, but here’s a couple introvert podcasters. And what made you wanna start that?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:39:14]:
Yeah. So for my coaching practice, I started towing live on LinkedIn audio events so that I’m not on camera, just to talk about introversion and and give people the opportunity to join me and and ask questions. And And 2, a lot of people were coming back to me afterwards saying, hey, I I really wanted to hear about that topic, but I had a conflict. And is there a recording? And because there wasn’t really the Daring to Succeed podcast was born out of logistical necessity where I just thought, well, if there are all these people who want to actually hear the topic, but can’t join live, What’s the easiest way for me to get that out there to them? And although podcasting is a lot of work, it was actually the easiest way for me to capture the conversations and make them available to people afterwards. And it’s been a lot of fun. Like you said, I’ve had some guests on there and I can always tell when it’s a very strong introvert who’s joining me as a guest, because they’ll thank me for the questions being sent ahead of time. I’ve had some really great feedback on the podcast as well, even though some introverts really like this long form content where it’s more of a conversation. I enjoy them as a, as a guest myself.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:40:49]:
My, my podcast episodes are typically, if they’re just me, about 5 to 7 minutes long. So it’s hyper prepared. I’ve drafted a script that keeps me very focused, make sure that I get to the points that I really want to have out there. And then for the guest episodes, we, we really get to the point with, you know, what what’s one thing that you really want to speak to the audience about so that they can just take that 10, 15 minutes out of their day to hear it. And if there’s something else we want to talk about, if there’s a few guests that I’ve talked to already about doing multiple episodes rather than having one long episode so that people can kind of just squeeze it into their day, And there’s not all those advertisements and FOMOs and all that stuff smashed in there because I’ve listened to some podcasts where it’s like, okay, just going to hit fast forward 5 minutes until this actual podcast starts.

David Hall [00:41:52]:
Yeah. What topics do you cover?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:41:54]:
It really depends on the guest. I like to bring on guests who speak about different parts of introversion than I normally would. I’m just trying to think there’s one coming up about confidence. That’s going to be really interesting. A lot of the times it’s just other people who are talking about introversion or other coaches that I’ve networked with that I think will be really interesting for the audience. And yeah, we chat. Yeah.

David Hall [00:42:23]:
It’s a great podcast. So

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:42:25]:
thank you.

David Hall [00:42:26]:
We’ve talked a lot of about a lot of things today. Julianna, is there anything else that we haven’t talked about that you would like to?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:42:32]:
No, you’ve been an amazing interviewer. Thank you. So I think think we covered a lot of ground already.

David Hall [00:42:39]:
Okay. And I love it. I love the title of your podcast, Daring to Succeed. So definitely everybody check that out. And where can people find out more about the work that you’re doing?

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:42:52]:
Yeah. So I’m primarily on LinkedIn for my social media, and my website is And David, I’ll make sure you’ve got links to all those for your listeners.

David Hall [00:43:05]:
I will put that in the show notes. Thanks again, Julianna. This has been a great conversation.

Julianna Yau Yorgan [00:43:09]:
Thanks so much for having me, David.

David Hall [00:43:11]:
Thank you so much for joining me today. I look forward to further connecting with you. Reach out at David {at}, or check out the website, which includes blog posts and links to social media channels. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show. If you’re interested in getting to know yourself better, there’s now a free type finder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong site. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the 4 letter Myers Briggs code, and you can also have the option of purchasing the full report if you’d like to learn more. I’ll add a link to the show notes. So many great things about being an introvert, and we need those to be understood.

David Hall [00:43:52]:
Get to know your introverted strengths and needs, and be strong.

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