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Show Notes
Have you ever wondered why building friendships can feel so challenging, especially when you see others making it look easy? In this episode of The Quiet And Strong Podcast, David Hall welcomes Caroline Maguire, an expert in social-emotional learning and neurodiversity, to explore what it really takes for neurodivergent adults to navigate social connections and find their people.
You’ll learn practical strategies for building authentic relationships that honor your unique strengths and interests, discover why traditional social approaches might not have worked for you, and hear how the myth of “one-size-fits-all” friendship can limit connection. Key takeaways include the power of shared interests, the importance of embracing who you are rather than masking, and actionable steps to create community on your own terms.
Tune in for empowering advice, an uplifting perspective on living authentically, and fresh ideas for growing meaningful connections—no matter where you are on your journey. Listen, get inspired, and be strong.
Unlocking Authentic Connection: Friendship Skills for Neurodivergent Adults with Caroline Maguire
As the host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast, I have the immense privilege of diving into the nuances of introversion, neurodiversity, and strategies for thriving in a world that often misunderstands us. In episode 282, I had the pleasure of interviewing Caroline Maguire—a renowned expert in ADHD, social-emotional learning, and friendship development. Our conversation was eye-opening, practical, and deeply affirming for anyone who has ever struggled to find their place and people.
Discovering Connection Through Shared Interests
One of the biggest takeaways from my conversation with Caroline was the power of fueling friendship through shared interests. Too often, we feel pressured to socialize in ways that simply don’t fit who we are or what we truly enjoy. Caroline emphasized that pursuing our genuine interests—no matter how niche—naturally brings us into contact with kindred spirits. Whether it’s bird watching, kayaking, or even the most obscure hobby, there are now limitless opportunities, thanks in part to the Internet, to connect with others who share our passions.
This approach is such a game-changer for introverts and neurodivergent individuals alike. Finding community no longer means forcing ourselves into uncomfortable social molds. Instead, it’s about leaning into what lights us up inside and letting friendship grow organically from there.
Understanding Neurodiversity: Beyond Labels
Caroline shared her own journey as someone with ADHD and dyslexia, blending professional and lived experience into her work. It was powerful to hear her describe how learning differences showed up in her life—not as deficits to “fix,” but as unique wiring that required different strategies and yielded surprising strengths.
Our discussion highlighted the broad landscape of neurodiversity, which goes beyond ADHD and dyslexia to include autism, anxiety, learning disabilities, and even social anxiety. One point that resonated with me was that each of these differences shapes both strengths and struggles, especially in the context of building social connections.
Busting Myths About Introversion, Neurodiversity, and Friendship
On this podcast, myth-busting is part of our DNA. Caroline and I tackled several persistent myths, including the idea that social skills are a one-size-fits-all proposition or that extroverts naturally excel at making friends while introverts constantly struggle.
Caroline affirmed that authentic socializing is unique to each individual. Some of us recharge in crowds, while others prefer quiet one-on-one conversations. There’s also the lingering myth that it’s “too late” to make friends or change our social approach once we reach adulthood. In reality, as Caroline has seen firsthand, it’s possible—and deeply rewarding—to shift one’s social picture, even later in life.
ADHD, Interest, and Navigating Social Burnout
A particularly enlightening part of our conversation centered on how ADHD impacts social motivation and energy. Caroline described the ADHD brain’s constant search for dopamine—a key neurotransmitter related to interest and reward. When a social situation is bland or uninteresting, it can be genuinely exhausting and even draining, no matter how outgoing you might appear from the outside.
For introverts, there’s often an overlap here—we all need to pay attention to what fills our “social cup” and what drains us. For some, it might be cozy, meaningful chats over coffee. For others, it’s the buzz of group activities. Both are valid. Recognizing and honoring these differences is key to building a sustainable, fulfilling social life.
From Struggle to Strategy: Building Real-Life Friendships
Caroline’s latest book, “Friendship Skills for Neurodivergent Adults,” directly addresses the surge in adult loneliness and the persistent challenge of forming friendships amid neurodiversity. The book provides practical tools for everything from making small talk to setting boundaries and understanding how to identify your “people.”
Some of my favorite strategies discussed include:
- Identifying your core interests and pursuing groups or activities centered on them.
- Letting go of the myth that your passions are too unique—there really is a community for every interest.
- Avoiding the trap of forced or prescriptive socialization (“should” activities) and instead, finding what genuinely lights you up.
- Knowing when to stretch beyond your comfort zone for the sake of valued relationships (like attending a late-night party for a friend), but also asserting your boundaries when that’s not the case.
Authenticity Over Masking: How to Be Your Real Self
Another critical topic was masking—the act of concealing parts of your true self, particularly neurodivergent traits, simply to fit in. While we all occasionally need to blend in socially, chronic masking can lead to profound stress, depression, and even burnout. Caroline’s advice? Build a “fabric or tapestry” of social interactions that lets you be yourself in most environments, with people who truly get and appreciate you.
She encourages all of us—introverts, extroverts, neurodivergent or not—to find the blend of activities and relationships that authentically recharge us rather than exhaust us.
Practical Steps to Start Building Your Own Social Playbook
If you recognize yourself in these conversations—feeling stuck, isolated, or unsure how to build the friendships you crave—there are practical ways to get started:
- Reflect on what actually brings you joy or interest (forget what you “should” enjoy).
- Seek out groups or online communities that share those interests.
- Try out Caroline’s approach: take what works for you, leave the rest, and give yourself permission to reject any strategy that doesn’t fit your needs.
- Explore resources and practical tips through Caroline’s platforms and books, or even consider working with a coach.
Key Takeaways From This Episode
- Caroline Maguire emphasizes the importance of finding friendships through shared interests and activities, especially for neurodivergent individuals 00:00.
- There is no one-size-fits-all approach to socializing; both introverts and extroverts benefit from understanding and honoring their own “social cup” and needs 15:08.
- Myths around socialization, such as the idea that it’s too late to make friends as an adult or that everyone must socialize in the same way, are debunked 10:35.
- Caroline Maguire explains that masking—suppressing neurodivergent traits to fit in—can lead to burnout and poor mental health 37:21.
- Her books and coaching focus on providing practical, customizable strategies for building meaningful friendships and connections at any age 38:58.
- Authenticity and understanding your own strengths and preferences are key to successful social connections 16:32.
Make Changes Now
- Pursue Your Interests to Build Friendships
Seek out clubs, activities, or online groups based on your personal interests—even niche ones. This approach naturally helps you meet people with whom you share a genuine connection and a shared “language” (Caroline McGuire at 00:00, 31:06). - Reflect on What Fills Your Social Cup
Identify which social activities genuinely energize you. Whether it’s one-on-one conversations, small group gatherings, or larger events, prioritize the types of interactions that make you feel fulfilled (Caroline McGuire at 15:08, 16:32). - Let Go of “One Size Fits All” Socializing Myths
Give yourself permission to socialize in a way that works for you, not according to others’ expectations. It’s never too late to change your social approach and find your authentic connections (Caroline McGuire at 11:00, 34:09). - Use Resources and Support
Consider following experts like Caroline McGuire or joining communities that share resources, tips, and strategies for building meaningful connections—especially for neurodivergent individuals (Caroline McGuire at 41:12). - Take What Works and Leave the Rest
When trying new strategies for socializing, adopt a “buffet” approach: try out different suggestions, keep those that suit you, and disregard anything that doesn’t align with your needs (Caroline McGuire at 38:58).
The Bottom Line: There’s No Single Path to Connection
Perhaps the most important insight from this episode is that there’s no universal path to making friends or building community. The key is unlocking your own “social playbook,” understanding your strengths and needs, and remembering that connection thrives on authenticity.
If you’re curious about these topics, want to understand yourself better, or are looking for a safe place to start your own journey, the Quiet and Strong Podcast and our growing library of episodes is here for you. We’re all learning together—and that’s the kind of connection that truly fills my cup.
If you’d like to explore more about neurodiversity, friendship, or how to embrace your introverted strengths, check out Caroline Maguire’s resources, my blog at QuietStrong.com, or connect with me directly. Let’s keep busting myths, supporting each other, and crafting friendship on our own terms.
Contacts and Links
Caroline Maguire is an internationally recognized expert in social-emotional learning, ADHD coaching, and relationship development. She is the author of the award-winning book, Why Will No One Play with Me? and her latest book FRIENDSHIP SKILLS FOR NEURODIVERGENT ADULTS , and hosts The ADHD Social Playbook podcast. An educator, coach, and sought-after speaker, Caroline developed a comprehensive Social Emotional Learning (SEL) training methodology that equips parents, clinicians, and educators with practical tools to build self-awareness, emotional regulation, social understanding, and meaningful relationships. As a neurodivergent person with ADHD, dyslexia, and learning disabilities, she brings both professional expertise and lived experience to her work.
Connect with Caroline: Instagram | Facebook | Youtube
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Timestamped Overview
00:00 The speaker discusses using personal interests as a means to form genuine friendships by engaging in related activities or joining groups, emphasizing the value of shared experiences and rejecting the idea that hobbies can be too niche to enjoy with others.
05:52 A supportive teacher used outdated reading materials to help the narrator, who later received additional tutoring to improve reading fluency after being diagnosed at age 12.
07:07 The speaker called their mom to confirm they had ADHD, began seeing a psychiatrist who helped them manage it, and later trained to become an ADHD coach themselves.
13:01 People with ADHD struggle with boredom because their brains receive less dopamine from tasks, making it difficult to maintain interest and social behaviors, prompting the need for strategies to make activities engaging.
16:32 The section discusses the challenges of feeling obligated to fulfill social duties, illustrated by an anecdote about attending a friend’s birthday party in uncomfortable conditions despite personal preferences.
18:55 The speaker contemplated changing careers to leverage their strengths and reduce pressure, was inspired by an article about ADHD coaching to pursue that field, and eventually carried the article everywhere until they were laid off, solidifying their decision.
22:37 The author’s first book was a prescriptive guide helping parents teach their children social skills due to a lack of similar resources, despite the complexity and difficulty in writing it.
24:40 The increasing cultural focus on loneliness and friendship catalyzed by the Pandemic helped bring to fruition the author’s long-desired book on adult friendships, benefiting from a surge of interest in related themes within the publishing industry.
29:23 The text discusses how individuals, particularly neurodivergent people, often have varied executive function skills, impacting their ability to self-regulate, organize, and make friends, with traditional teaching methods failing to adequately address these challenges.
33:24 The section discusses the misconception of needing to follow a set path for success, emphasizing that past failures may stem from a lack of understanding one’s neurology and personal needs, particularly for introverts.
35:14 The section discusses a podcast focused on ADHD and socialization, featuring episodes on topics like ruminative OCD, coping strategies by experts like Jeanine Halloran, emotional regulation, and personal stories to debunk myths and improve self-understanding.
41:27 The speaker expresses gratitude to listeners, encourages exploring more episodes, introduces a free Myers Briggs personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website, provides contact information, and invites suggestions for future show topics or guests.
42:07 The section emphasizes the importance of recognizing and embracing the strengths and needs of introverts.
Podcast Transcript
Caroline Maguire [00:00:00]:
So one is to use interest, to use the fuel of our brain. There are tons of activities, clubs, places you can meet people based on interests, even niche interests. And the more we use those interests, the more we find friendships based on things we are interested in. Then we’re finding people with whom we have like an automatic connection, right? We have a language. We all like bird watching, we all like kayaking. We, we enjoy the outdoors together. And it creates like a shared language and a shared experience. So instead of doing the things that everybody thinks they should do, right, really going into what do you want to do, what do you find fun? What do you enjoy and letting go of, again, one of those myths that, oh, it’s too unique or it’s too niche.
Caroline Maguire [00:00:52]:
One of the things that has happened, and that’s wonderful, is that the Internet has allowed us to, to broadcast and share and create community around different interests.
David Hall [00:01:12]:
Hello. Welcome to episode 282 of the Quiet and Strong podcast, especially for introverts. I’m your host David hall and the creator of QuietStrong.com this is a weekly podcast dedicated to understanding the strengths and needs of introverts along with strategies for success. Introversion is not something to fix, but to be embraced. Normally we will air each episode on a Monday. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite platform, leave a review or a rating that would mean a lot to me and help others find the show. Tell a friend about the podcast and help get the word out there that introversion is a beautiful thing. Caroline McGuire is an internationally recognized expert in social emotional learning, ADHD coaching and relationship development.
David Hall [00:01:55]:
She is the author of the award winning book why Will no One Play with Me? And her latest book, Friendship Skills for Neurodivergent Adults and hosts the ADHD Social Playbook podcast. An educator, coach and sought after speaker, Caroline developed a comprehensive social emotional learning training methodology that equips parents, clinicians and educators with practical tools to build self awareness, emotional regulation, social understanding and meaningful relationships. As a neurodivergent person with adhd, dyslexia and learning disabilities, she brings both professional expertise and lived experience to her work. All right, Caroline, it’s so nice to have you on the quietestron podcast today. Welcome.
Caroline Maguire [00:02:42]:
Thank you so much for having me.
David Hall [00:02:44]:
So, you know, we’re going to get into the great work that you’re doing in your latest book. Tell us about yourself and your journey to the work that you’re doing now.
Caroline Maguire [00:02:55]:
Sure. So I am an only child, so I was always sort of an old soul. I grew up in Kind of a rural area called Cape Cod. And it’s not, it’s not the place of the movies where you, you have the Kennedys and everything. It’s a pretty quiet place. And as a kid, I really struggled to read at an early age, even though I was very hyperverbal. And so in my later elementary school years, I discovered that I am dyslexic and I have adhd. I struggled socially as a kid.
Caroline Maguire [00:03:32]:
I was just not with people who were my people. And I think that I was like, you know, an old soul. I didn’t really know how to connect with other kids. And so my journey has been that. When I trained to be an ADHD coach In my early 30s, I discovered that most people with ADHD have had a hard time socially. And I very quickly realized that this was an area where people needed help. Friendship was an area where people needed help. And so I just started, I did a master’s degree and I started becoming the person who helps people make connection and make friends and find their people and their authentic, their authentic connections.
Caroline Maguire [00:04:17]:
Not trying to fit in, but trying to belong and find those skills.
David Hall [00:04:22]:
Okay, so tell us a little bit more. You said you were diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia. What are those things?
Caroline Maguire [00:04:31]:
So ADHD is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. And it’s basically where you don’t have enough dopamine and norepinephrine, which are two neurotransmitters. And people think that we’re hyperactive because we have an overactive brain, but it’s actually that we are, we have an under aroused brain. And so we are missing certain chemicals makes it hard to focus and self regulate. And so, you know, a lot of people take medication to compensate for those chemicals that we’re missing. And then dyslexia. For me, my reading learning disability meant that I just couldn’t sight read. I had a really hard time.
Caroline Maguire [00:05:13]:
I had to use phonics and sounding things out. I can remember anything I hear. But I was a really slow reader in my early childhood especially and struggled with, you know, I still, if I read aloud, like when I, when I created the audiobook for my latest book, I struggled with like missing words, skipping words, mispronouncing words. And so that’s, that’s a, also a neurological based condition.
David Hall [00:05:44]:
And how did you learn to work with, with ADHD and dyslexia?
Caroline Maguire [00:05:52]:
Well, I was really lucky in that I had this really lovely teacher who understood that the reading techniques that, that were very popular in the 1980s were not working with me. And so she sort of brought out certain books that. That were, like, out of fashion. They had stopped being what they used to teach reading. And she used them with me, and she spent tons and tons of time with me, one on one. And then when I was 12, when I was diagnosed, they said to my parents, like, you need to get her some interventions for this. So I. I saw tutors and I saw different people to help me with some of the fluidity of my reading so that I could read faster.
Caroline Maguire [00:06:33]:
I had by then become a big reader. Like, I loved reading. I just wasn’t that fast. And then with the adhd, I really didn’t do anything about it because they had told my parents I was a girl and that I would outgrow it. But When I was 25, I worked for Johnson Johnson, and they really train their people really well. I have to give them hats off. And I sat in a ballroom and they described adhd. All these different experts came in, and I was like, oh, my God, this is me.
Caroline Maguire [00:07:07]:
And I went upstairs and I called my mom from the hotel and I said, mom, don’t I have that ADHD thing? And she said, yeah. And they said, you would overcome it, but, like, you would. You would. It would go away, but, like, it hasn’t. And so I went and started seeing a psychiatrist who. Who functioned more like a coach. And she started helping me just figure out, how do you manage this? How do you put in place strategies? How do you, you know, have a better sense of time? And I saw her for, like, three or four years, and then I trained to be an ADHD coach. And that also really helped me with, like, compensatory strategies.
Caroline Maguire [00:07:45]:
Like, if you can’t always remember things, how do you externalize stuff so that you remember even when your brain doesn’t remember something?
David Hall [00:07:54]:
Absolutely. And, yeah, that’s the thing. You know, there’s things that come to us naturally, and we need to develop strategies. Have you seen strengths that have come from ADHD or dyslexia?
Caroline Maguire [00:08:09]:
Absolutely. So one of my strengths is that I was a theater kid, and I do a lot of public speaking, and I have no problem with that whatsoever. Because of the dyslexia. A lot of dyslexia dyslexics are very, very verbal. And I was always very good on my feet. I was always very good verbally. And so that’s a strength that I think I’ve definitely used to its utmost. So I have no problem getting on a stage.
Caroline Maguire [00:08:37]:
I have no problem speaking to people. Giving workshops. That’s a real strength of mine that some people, you know, are terrified to do. So I definitely see that there are strengths. I’m a big picture thinker. I can definitely see the big picture and make those kind of plans. And I think that definitely comes from my ADHD as well.
David Hall [00:08:59]:
And of course, you know, we’ve been talking about you personally. What other forms of neurodiversity are there?
Caroline Maguire [00:09:07]:
So autism is another form of neurodiversity, which is, you know, characterized by some of the same challenges as adhd. But additionally, there’s social challenges. There’s a different way of processing information for autistic folks. They process from the bottom up, so the details and then the big picture, which makes them very good at certain things. There’s, you know, different definitions of neurodiversity. The one I did for friendship skills for neurodiverse adults, because I had to make some decisions, includes learning disabilities and includes anxiety. And some people will say, well, that’s not everything. There’s other things too.
Caroline Maguire [00:09:47]:
But I had to sort of create, you know, some boundaries around it, and I didn’t want to do anything I’m not trained in or I don’t have background in. So I included autistic folks, learning disabilities, anxiety, I definitely think obsessive compulsive disorder, and folks who have struggled with social anxiety. I would put into that, that. That category of neurodiversity, too. It can be a kind of a broad term that includes other things, but I would. I would keep it to this for. For the purposes of things that I can help people with.
David Hall [00:10:24]:
Okay. Okay. And so we bust myths on this show. A lot of times it’s about introversion. But let’s. What myths do you want to bust today when it comes to neurodivergency?
Caroline Maguire [00:10:35]:
I mean, I think one of them actually goes into the introversion, extroversion, which is. I think that the way you socialize can be unique and individual. And I think for a lot of us who are children of the 80s and 90s, we were taught to socialize as extroverts, even if you’re an introvert, as if there was only one way to socialize. And dovetailed with that is the myth that if you didn’t learn to make friends, like in kindergarten, and you. You come to, as an adult, want to have more friends or want to have a different social life, that. That it’s too late. And I think that’s a myth that is not healthy for us because it limits us sometimes. You know, we don’t realize what we need until we’re older.
Caroline Maguire [00:11:28]:
So I work with people all the time in their 40s, 50s, 60s, to, to change their social approach and to figure out who their people are. And I. That’s a myth I want to bust. Like it’s never over.
David Hall [00:11:42]:
Yeah. And so, you know, I’ve been diving into your latest book and it was fascinating because you’re an extrovert and you, you talked about how, you know, still with all the aspects of your personality, you could find socializing difficult or even sometimes just uninteresting, you know, boring. You know, so tell us about that because, you know, there’s too much placed on introversion, extroversion. Sometimes there’s just, you know, too many stereotypes. Like every extrovert is always just good at socializing and, you know, enjoys all of it. And it was just, it was refreshing to see. Well, yeah, that’s not necessarily the case.
Caroline Maguire [00:12:23]:
Yeah, definitely. So there’s a bunch of factors here. You know, some of it is I am an only child, right. So there’s always been a part of me that is fine, being alone, that needs to revitalize, that grew up with adults. Right. So I, I like one on one relationships more sometimes than like a crowd. But I definitely think, you know, those of us who have adhd, autistic folks, we tend to struggle with certain aspects of socialization. And there is this myth that everyone who’s extroverted is good at socialization.
Caroline Maguire [00:13:01]:
But, you know, if you struggle, you know, with making conversation, if you over share, if you, you know, struggle with boredom, and it’s a very ADHD characteristic because interest is our fuel. Interest is actually how we ignite our brain. And longitudinal studies have shown that people with adhd, that it’s actually a deficit around interest, that when our brain is bored or uninterested, we have a much harder time producing certain things. And that’s because our reward pathway doesn’t give us as much dopamine as typical people. So if you think of it as like, if a typical person does a task, they get a dollar by their reward pathway for doing that, and they’re rewarded with that dopamine. We get 50 cents, which means to continue that task, we’re searching for dopamine. And so when something is boring, our brain becomes sleepy and it’s harder for us to continue those positive social behaviors. And so I have all kinds of hacks around how to make things interesting, but it does mean that certain events that don’t interest me or that I Find overwhelming sensory wise, I do tend to shy away from.
Caroline Maguire [00:14:17]:
And I talk in the book about how do you make choices. Right. Sometimes you have something at work, you don’t really love it, but it’s good for your career. Like how do you make those choices and then find the coping strategies to make it happen in a way that works for you?
David Hall [00:14:32]:
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s funny too because a lot of times people do equate introversion and extroversion just with the social aspects. And it’s really not that. It’s really that you’re mostly turned inward or mostly turned outward, you know, and how you process things. And it’s just, it’s, it’s good to have this conversation where, you know, there’s more, there’s much more to it. I mean I talk about introversion, extroversion because I think it’s very misunderstood. But there’s so many. We also talk about other factors like we are today.
David Hall [00:15:05]:
So that’s, that’s very good.
Caroline Maguire [00:15:08]:
Yeah. And I think there’s also this myth that, that doesn’t understand that it’s also how do you get energy? Right. And, and like what I talk about the social cup. What fills your social cup. And I think sort of one of the myths, since we like to bust myths, is that everybody social cup is filled by the same thing. And that’s just not true. Some people, you know, I love a one on one chat. Right.
Caroline Maguire [00:15:34]:
Some people love a big event, some people on people love big groups. What fills your social cup is not always the same. And I think that goes back to that. Introversion, extroversion and the myth that we all should be socializing in a way that may not fill your social cup and you may have tried only to find I don’t feel fulfilled at the end of this versus something else that you do find fulfilling.
David Hall [00:16:04]:
Yeah. And like you were saying, like you have to look at it like what, what’s going on here? What do I want? You know, you said there might be something you need to do that’s good career wise, but if it wasn’t, you probably wouldn’t do it. And you have to find those things that fill your cup and do more of those. You know, we’re always going to have to do things that might be draining. Just it’s part of life. But if we could find more things that fill our cup, I, I think that’s, that’s the ideal.
Caroline Maguire [00:16:32]:
Yeah, I think it is too. And I think as we mature, it’s harder and harder to feel like we have to have a life of duty, you know, So I, you know, I think, yeah, you have stuff you have to do because it’s good for your career or because it’s a. It’s a. It’s a gift to your friend. Right. You know, I talk a lot about how I don’t really like to be out late. And one of my really close friends, who I end the book talking about, had her birthday party last winter and it was freezing cold and it was in downtown Boston, and it started at like 8 o’ clock at night, and it was with people I didn’t know at all. That’s not my best social picture.
Caroline Maguire [00:17:11]:
But it was something she really wanted and she really wanted everyone to join and she really wanted me there. So in that case, you go, right? Because you’re you. If you don’t go, you’re really hurting someone. You go to weddings because. Because you don’t want to hurt someone. But you don’t have to have every minute of your social picture be about this sort of myth of the extrovert of doing everything that extroverts like to do. And by verse, vice versa. Extroverts don’t have to do everything that introverts like to do.
Caroline Maguire [00:17:45]:
We have to find those things that fulfill us and, you know, create more of a fabric or a tapestry where we have mixed activities and mixed interactions, where we’re doing different things with different people depending on what fulfills us.
David Hall [00:18:01]:
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And that’s a good reason why I do this show. It’s like we need to get to know ourselves, but we need to get to know the significant others in our lives as well. And sometimes it is finding that balance. Like, you’ll go to this party for your friend as late and with people you don’t necessarily know, but maybe there’s something that you like to do that she would do with you, that. That’s not filling her cup. So.
David Hall [00:18:26]:
Yeah, that’s. That’s awesome. Well, Caroline, how did you decide to become a coach?
Caroline Maguire [00:18:30]:
I read an article and I was. I was. My company that I was with was having constant layoffs. Like, I think I survived nine rounds of layoffs.
David Hall [00:18:41]:
Wow.
Caroline Maguire [00:18:41]:
And I talk about this story in the book where it got to the point where the lights would shut out in my department because there wasn’t enough human activities to keep the lights on. And the floor that I was in.
David Hall [00:18:53]:
Oh, no.
Caroline Maguire [00:18:55]:
And I just started thinking about, like, what could I. What else could I do? Using my strengths where I wasn’t under such pressure. You Know, and I could travel less and just, you know, maybe shift in careers. And I read an article in the New York Times about ADHD coaching and I just was like, I’d be really good at that. And I remember I was on a plane at the time and I passed the article to people I knew and they were like, you would be so good at, like, they all read it and said, you would be good at this. And so I used to keep the article and I would pass it from briefcase and purse to person. I carried it around and I got, finally, I got laid off. I finally like, you know, was the last, last person standing.
Caroline Maguire [00:19:39]:
And I called my mom and I said, you know, this has happened. We knew it would happen eventually. And she said, okay, I hope you’ll now go do that training to become an ADHD coach because it’s really something you want to do. You’re carrying this article from purse to first. It’s clearly something you want and I think you’d be good at it. And like, this is a sign. And my husband came home that day. He was like, we knew this was going to happen eventually.
Caroline Maguire [00:20:08]:
I hope you’ll go get trained. And I had already talked to the ADD Coach Academy where I trained. I was like, well, you’ll be happy to know I’ve already talked to them. And so I spent the day, the 15 months working myself out of my, my corporate job and training. It was like 15 months or two years training at the ADD Coach Academy. And so I decided it based on just this visceral thing that like, it was really something I’d be good at and that I really felt like what I had needed my whole life was sort of compensatory strategies, you know, and that it was something that it would be really fun to help other kids and other young people find their way. And so I, I’ve never looked back. It’s been 21 years now.
David Hall [00:20:55]:
Oh, wow.
Caroline Maguire [00:20:56]:
Yeah.
David Hall [00:20:57]:
What are, what are some of the benefits of working with the coach?
Caroline Maguire [00:21:01]:
You know, coaching is really lovely in that it helps you hold a mirror up to your life in a really non judgmental way. So, you know, you can, you can use coaching to figure out problems and dilemmas. That’s more life coaching. ADHD coaching is more focused on, you know, I have these, these things that I do. Let me educate the client about ADHD and then let me also help them figure out and learn skills around things like time management. And I focus solely, not I didn’t at first, but I focus solely now on helping people make Friends. So I get to spend all my time helping people figure out, you know, skills that they need to build. And so we work on conversation, and we work on, you know, how to make those connections that they.
Caroline Maguire [00:21:51]:
That they don’t necessarily know how to make. And then I also help them with dilemmas, you know, friendship dilemmas. Why. Why did this person stop calling me? You know, where do I want to go to college that would be, you know, finding my people? And so I work with people all across the lifespan, and I love that because it’s so diverse, too. It’s so interesting to work with different age groups.
David Hall [00:22:17]:
Yeah. I think that leads us right into my next couple questions. You’re the author of two books, so let’s talk about your first one. Let’s see. I got the whole title here. Why Will no One Play With Me? A Play Better Plan to Help Children of All Ages Make Friends and Thrive. So tell us about your first book.
Caroline Maguire [00:22:37]:
So my first book was meant to help parents help their children build social skills if their child was struggling to make friends. And it was prescriptive. So there was all these steps that you would follow and working with your child and building these skills. And I wrote it because there was nothing like it in the marketplace. And I kept waiting for someone else to write it because I literally went to graduate school so that I could do the work I do and write this book, but no one ever did, and it was hard to write. So I know why they didn’t, because it was really complicated to explain to parents how they could do this. But I felt really passionately that not everyone can afford to work with someone like me. And there’s a lot of parents out there who are very willing to work with their kids.
Caroline Maguire [00:23:27]:
And I felt pretty passionately that they deserved to have the education that they needed in order to. To help their children learn these kind of skills and learn to make friends and have those skills that you need to navigate the workplace in life.
David Hall [00:23:45]:
And then, of course, your second one that’s come out recently is Tell Us. Let’s see. So Friendship Skills for Neurodivergent Adults. A Guide for the Anxious, Uniquely Wired and Easily distracted.
Caroline Maguire [00:24:00]:
Yeah. So as I was touring around promoting why Will Know Play With Me, I kept hearing from people like, I get that you want us to help our kids, Caroline, but as an adult, I don’t know how to make friends. And I had always worked with adults, and I couldn’t really figure out how to get a book published with actual diagnostic labels. And in 2019, when wild no Play with Me came out. The publishing world really wouldn’t do that. They saw that as a niche book, not a. Not a top publishing house book. And then the Pandemic kind of changed everything for all of us, I think.
Caroline Maguire [00:24:40]:
And I really saw this groundswell of people talking about loneliness and friendship and not knowing how to make friends in the publishing world changed. And they kind of. A few books with diagnostic labels in the ADHD world and stuff did really well. And then they started to say, oh, well, maybe we could do this. So it was really a matter of timing. But I got really lucky in that it was a book I really wanted to write and had been sort of working on, you know, what would I have in it? And then because of the Pandemic, which was obviously a terrible time for everyone, but really there became, in this sort of zeitgeist of. Of our culture, people talking about loneliness and friendship and how it’s hard to make friends as an adult. So that’s kind of how that came to be.
Caroline Maguire [00:25:33]:
I’d been thinking about it, but I’d originally been told I couldn’t do it. And then I think the public has just been really out there saying, like, we just don’t know how to do this, and friendship is hard and things are not going. You know, we have a loneliness epidemic in America, so. And worldwide now. So I. It was really about timing for the second book, and I’m. I’m so happy that it’s being so well received.
David Hall [00:25:59]:
Yeah, that’s interesting that it came out of the Pandemic. That’s why. That’s where this podcast started, because, you know, people were saying things like, oh, introverts, they’re just loving this. Yeah, I knew a lot of. I knew a lot of lonely introverts.
Caroline Maguire [00:26:12]:
I did, too.
David Hall [00:26:13]:
I was feeling very isolated myself, you know, just. I love my wife and kids so much, and I love spending time with them, but they were the only ones I was seeing, you know, and it.
Caroline Maguire [00:26:23]:
Right.
David Hall [00:26:23]:
I was missing other people in my life, you know, so my work came out of the Pandemic as well. But at least this. Not. Not totally, but the podcast came out of. Just to set some. The story straight.
Caroline Maguire [00:26:36]:
Yeah, no, I mean, that’s so interesting because I remember people saying that. The other thing that they said a lot that drove me bonkers and I actually wrote articles about this is like, kids are resilient. And that’s not what the research shows. What the research shows is that kids are resilient if they have one caring adult who teaches Them the skills to be resilient. And most adults don’t have those skills. So I’m with you. I was like, why are people saying these things? And people said the introvert thing a lot. And I remember thinking how lonely so many people I knew were and that I didn’t really know anyone who was enjoying it.
David Hall [00:27:14]:
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I. Two of my kids were now being forced into online school and they weren’t seeing their friends, you know, one. One was. One is an introvert, one is an extrovert. And they both just hated it, you know, and hated it. And the other thing is, I think with resilience, you know, you and I, we’ve been through a lot of things in our lifetimes. We’ve learned to be resilient, but sometimes kids don’t see that, you know, this is going to be okay soon, you know.
David Hall [00:27:44]:
Yeah, we’re going to get through this because, you know, as, as adults, we have passed through lots of things and seen, seen our way to the other side where kids haven’t had that experience yet for many things.
Caroline Maguire [00:27:57]:
Absolutely. It’s modeled. Right. You have to see that things can get better. And it’s just assuming. It’s kind of assuming this narrative of grit. And that grit is something that we possessed in past generations and that it came from all the like, really hard things we went through. And I definitely think I’m a pretty resilient person.
Caroline Maguire [00:28:21]:
And I know exactly why I’m resilient. I’m resilient because my grandfather spent every afternoon with me and taught me those skills and also constantly told me how things would be okay. And, and I’ve had a lot of, of therapy. So I, I just, it drove me crazy. I was like, you’re assuming this very sort of middle class view of things where kids are, you know, being taught these skills. And also maybe part of why people are resilient is their motivation. And if you don’t have anything you’re motivated by because you’re trapped inside, that’s gonna sort of crush some of that, you know, will to be resilient. You know what I mean? Like, I just felt like it was just such a.
Caroline Maguire [00:29:11]:
It wasn’t, it wasn’t a great message. I felt like. I just felt too many people were struggling.
David Hall [00:29:17]:
Yeah, for sure. So why, why do the neurodivergence sometimes find it hard to build connections?
Caroline Maguire [00:29:23]:
There’s skills that come from our management system in the brain, executive function, that we tend to have weaker executive function. And not every executive function has to be Weak. So we might struggle with organization or planning, but be very good at future thinking. It’s not a one size fits all situation. But a lot of the ways that we make friends and keep connection stem from that ability to self regulate, you know, and filter what we say, to organize ourselves and plan ahead, to read the room and self monitor how we are. And those are skills that a lot of neurodivergent people really struggle with based on our their brain based reasons for it. And I think also we’re harder to teach how to make friends. And so when we were little and because people didn’t know how to teach us, they would tend to just tell us to stop doing something without providing sort of that key information of like how do you do something else instead? And then just the science and the way things were taught hadn’t caught up to the need.
Caroline Maguire [00:30:43]:
And so a lot of what I’m doing is really inventing ways to take science and take other ways that are out there to teach social skills and changing them to meet the needs of our population and to be more neuro affirming and positive.
David Hall [00:31:02]:
What are a few strategies to help somebody build friendships, build connection?
Caroline Maguire [00:31:06]:
So one is to use interest, to use the fuel of our brain. There are tons of activities, clubs, places you can meet people based on interests in even niche interests. And the more we use those interests, the more we find friendships based on things we’re interested in. Then we’re finding people with whom we have like an automatic connection. Right. We have a language, we all like bird watching, we all like kayaking, we enjoy the outdoors together. And it creates like a shared language and a shared experience. So instead of doing the things that everybody thinks they should do, right.
Caroline Maguire [00:31:48]:
Really going into what do you want to do, what do you find fun, what do you enjoy and letting go of again, one of those myths that, oh, it’s too unique or it’s too niche. One of the things that has happened, and that’s wonderful is that the Internet has allowed us to broadcast and share and create community around different interests. And so, you know, maybe it wasn’t possible 30 years ago to find everybody who likes, you know, photography about birds, but now it is possible. So that’s one of my biggest tips, is to find those kind of activities and join them so that you’re meeting people who are like you instead of meeting all kinds of people. It’s like the right friends versus the like masses of friends.
David Hall [00:32:42]:
Yeah, yeah. And that’s good advice too for someone that’s struggling to understand their introversion is. Because a myth I bust about introversion is that we absolutely like people. You know, we just may like different doses, different ways, but we, we want to connect, we want to find. And a lot of times too, like people say, oh, introverts don’t have anything to say, but you get us on a topic that we’re interested in and you can’t shut us up sometimes, you know, I say, I could talk about introversion all day.
Caroline Maguire [00:33:24]:
No, I think that’s absolutely true. And I think that there’s, there’s this myth that you have to do things a certain way. And I think that’s part of what you’re talking about in what I’m talking about is that we were taught that, but it didn’t lead anywhere. It didn’t work. And so one of the things I say to people in the first chapter of the book for cynics, for people who say, I’ve tried this before, Caroline, and I’m 40, 50, 60, 30, and it hasn’t worked out, so why should I try again, is, well, you were trying based on no roadmap, not understanding your neurology, not understanding your needs, and basically pushing down your needs. And I would say the same for introverts. Like, if you’ve tried before and it didn’t work out, were you playing by a playbook that kept your introversion in mind, or were you playing by a playbook that was based on all these myths that, that aren’t true?
David Hall [00:34:24]:
Yeah, I love that playbook. In fact, tell us about your podcast, because playbook is in the title of your podcast. Because that, that’s, and that’s a lot of what we talk about here too. It’s like there’s, you know, when I was younger, there wasn’t talk about introversion, extroversion, or, you know, not, not a good understanding of what we’re talking about with neurodivergency.
Caroline Maguire [00:34:48]:
Right.
David Hall [00:34:49]:
And it was like there was a one size fits all approach like you’ve been talking about, and that’s not going to bring you success. It’s really being your authentic self and understanding what your strengths are, what your needs are, and ultimately what do you want and how is your best path to get that. So tell us about your podcast and what kind of topics you talk on the podcast about.
Caroline Maguire [00:35:14]:
So it’s the ADHD social playbook, and we talk about topics around ADHD and socialization and the things that affect us. I’m going to do a podcast soon on ruminative ocd. So a form of ocd, obsessive Compulsive disorder, where people ruminate a lot. Or I had an expert on about coping strategies and this idea that, you know, there’s a lot of myths around emotional coping strategies and this idea that, you know, like, grit that we all just, you know, bear through it and suppress your emotions. And. And this expert, Jeanine Halloran, has like, great tips on, like, how can you cope in a situation that maybe isn’t built for you? You have to be in so that you don’t, you know, become overwhelmed and dysregulated. So I talk about a lot of different topics, whether it’s bringing in an expert who can explain something that’s affecting our socialization or people who have something that helps us be better and find our people and understand ourselves better. And so, you know, I had someone on a few weeks ago about self regulation who, who wrote a new book on self regulation or, you know, I have had people come in and talk about, you know, their own stories and sort of to bust those myths, like you said.
Caroline Maguire [00:36:42]:
So it’s a wide variety of things, but they all rally around, like, how can we find our own way forward and what’s the information you need to figure out your own personal social playbook and what you need to find your people and find that connection, but in a way that works for you, not in a way that works for someone else.
David Hall [00:37:05]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Authenticity is key.
Caroline Maguire [00:37:09]:
It is.
David Hall [00:37:10]:
And one more topic I wanted to bring up from your book. You talk a lot about masking, you know, and trying to be something that you’re not. What is masking and how does that play into all this?
Caroline Maguire [00:37:21]:
So masking is the idea of suppressing your neurodivergent traits and pretending they don’t exist in order to fit in. So, for instance, instead of fidgeting, I would suppress that. Instead of doing something autistic folks do, which is stimming, which might be repeating words or it might be saying things over and over again, they would stop doing that. They would suppress that. Or even just pretending that you love extroverted things, right? Like all if you pretend that you really want to be at the World cup in a huge crowd, surrounded by people out all day, and that’s the way you really want to be. And it’s really not who, who you are and what you want to be, that’s masking because it’s pretending and wearing a mask in order to fit in. And we all mask from time to time, and we all have moments when we mask. We don’t always tell our boss what we think.
Caroline Maguire [00:38:21]:
Right. But, you know, for a lot of people who are high masking, they’re doing it all day, every day. And then it leads to profound mental health effects and burnout and depression because you really never get to be yourself with anyone. You’re really pretending all the time.
David Hall [00:38:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. And again, like I was saying, it’s all about, what do you want, but what are your strengths? What do you need because of different. Different reasons and how. What’s your best path? So I love that. Is there anything else from your book that we didn’t talk about that you want to bring up?
Caroline Maguire [00:38:58]:
I think that, you know, one of the things I try to do is give really clear strategies, and the strategies don’t all have to be used. So one of the things I say at the beginning of the book is take what you want and leave the rest. So it’s not prescriptive, this book. So if you are like, I don’t need to read the chapter on how to make small talk and make conversation. I’m great at that. Great. Don’t read it. Or if you disagree with a strategy, you know, and I think this is all part of finding your way forward so that you do things your way.
Caroline Maguire [00:39:31]:
There’s not one way to do things. I’m offering you a sort of buffet of different options to help you along your way. And if something you don’t agree with it, it doesn’t work for you. The whole new mindset is, toss it out. You don’t have to do everything. You know, I make suggestions even about how much you should socialize. And I give you information like, proximity helps us socialize. It helps us make friends, being in proximity with people.
Caroline Maguire [00:39:58]:
But if you say, well, Caroline, doing three activities a week is like my nightmare. I cannot imagine it. I do not want it. It doesn’t fill my social cup. It drains my social battery. Then don’t do it. Right. I’m not saying it has to be this way.
Caroline Maguire [00:40:13]:
I’m saying, okay, here’s the data on how long it takes to make a friend. And, like, here’s some possible ways that you want to move forward, and then you can make a choice because it’s a new day. I think we’re trying to get away from. You have to do things one way.
David Hall [00:40:29]:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s probably how we could summarize this show. That’s what we’ve talked about is what’s your best way? Right. You know, as we’ve talked about neurodivergency. If there’s topics that we’re new to people today. What’s the best way to start exploring those?
Caroline Maguire [00:40:47]:
I think one of the best ways is that if you want to Follow Me authorcarolinem on Instagram I share groups and nonprofits and places to get information because I feel like that’s part of my mission in life, is just to say, hey everybody, if you’re looking for this, this is where to go. And also I share tips and strategies and ways that you could find your people and move forward. So Thrarolinem is sort of where everything flows from my YouTube channel, my Instagram, and then you can find your way to different resources from there.
David Hall [00:41:21]:
Awesome. Caroline, this has been such a wonderful conversation. Thanks again.
Caroline Maguire [00:41:25]:
Thank you so much.
David Hall [00:41:27]:
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you. I hope you take the time to explore other episodes and learn from other amazing guests. Remember, if you’re interested in getting to know yourself better, there is now a free typefinder personality assessment on the Quiet and Strong website. This free assessment will give you a brief report including the four letter Myers Briggs Code. I’ll add a link in the show notes and I’d love to connect with you. Reach out to daviduyandstrong.com or check out the quietandstrong.com website which includes blog posts and links to social media for Quiet and strong and much more. Send me topics or guests you would like to see on the show.
David Hall [00:42:07]:
So many great things about being an introvert and so we need those to be understood. Get to know your introverted strengths and needs and be strong.
David Hall, M.Ed. is a speaker, author, and host of the Quiet and Strong Podcast, where he interviews thought leaders, creatives, and professionals who help introverts thrive. With over 25 years in higher education, David has led workshops, trainings, and presentations on productivity, personality, and introversion. His mission is to help introverts honor their needs, understand their strengths, and succeed on their own terms. He is the author of Minding Your Time: Time Management, Productivity, and Success, Especially for Introverts and a passionate advocate for creating work environments where introverts can do their best work.
